How about an Enfeebling Magic thread?

[SpankWustler]

Glorious necrobump since not many RDM threads seem to focus on Enfeebling.

I know Saboteur boosts potency of enfeebles, but perhaps with Addle it could also increase the spell interrupt rate on mobs, such as a 5% chance spells the mob is casting will be interrupted for no reason, or just an increase in the spell interrupt rate from taking damage.

Compared to what Addle does now, this addition would be a big help to it.

It would pretty awesome if this were a native effect of Addle, actually.

[Economizer]

It would pretty awesome if this were a native effect of Addle, actually.

Honestly I was thinking that Red Mages wanted this spell to somehow be special for them and this is how they could have that, and that mobs casting the spell will be a pain in the butt if Addle had this natively. Still, I can see where a five minute ability would make this a pain to the point of wanting it natively.

[saevel]

Good idea, but needs to be native anyway, but then WHM's get it.

SE also needs to create a new line of enfeebles that are RDM only and that NM's are not resistant to. I want to apply all those effects they be giving BLU.

[SpankWustler]

Honestly I was thinking that Red Mages wanted this spell to somehow be special for them and this is how they could have that, and that mobs casting the spell will be a pain in the butt if Addle had this natively. Still, I can see where a five minute ability would make this a pain to the point of wanting it natively.

Oh, right! I kind of forgot the spell that I keep buried on line four of my WHM macro palette and use only as a Voidwatch proc actually enfeebles monsters. I think the monsters forget, too...

They really should have made Addle suck far less, and if White Mage getting something that sucked less worried them, made it Red Mage-only.

[Duelle]

SE also needs to create a new line of enfeebles that are RDM only and that NM's are not resistant to. I want to apply all those effects they be giving BLU.

I'd rather enfeebles be redesigned with some of the effects changed so that we can have some actual enfeebling instead of using spells to outright avoid stuff. I doubt mobs would be immune to paralyze if its effect was "Attack Down & Accuracy Down" instead of "randomly prevents an action". Break could be treated as a stun with a root attached, and so on. Sure, it doesn't work like it did in Final Fantasy VI or VII or X, but they'd fit in the context of an MMORPG.

Another thing to consider would be spells building off each other. Say, Bio's Attack down acting as a booster for Paralyze's effects, or perhaps Slow acting as a booster to Addle. That at least creates a pseudo chain of spells that need to be casted.

Oh, and Dia/Bio being exclusive of each other needs to go away. Giving Attack Down and Defense Down to a mob is not exactly OP, game-breaking or anything.

[Aleste]

Personally, considering that addle is mostly used (as a voidwatch proc~) whenever the mob is unable to be silenced, I'm surprised they didn't consider buffing it to actively penalize the target if it does cast spells. Something like:

Addle: Decreases enemies magical accuracy and increases spellcasting time. Saboteur: Target takes damage whenever a successful spell is cast.

Or make it so that spells cast whilst under the effect of Saboteur'd Addle take twice as long to recharge.

Why even stop there, change the all the current debuffs to have an extra more potent effect whilst under Saboteur? (and then half the recast timer on Saboteur)

Slow : Targets job abilities and weapon skills take twice as long to ready. RDM gains a fast cast bonus depending on strength of targets slow.

Paralyze : The next weapon-skill used is automatically paralyzed (although, I'd imagine just interrupted would suffice) and is disabled for the next X+ weaponskills. (Only 1 weaponskill maximum can be disabled at a time)

Blind : Enemies nearby take +X damage whenever target afflicted misses.

Dispel : Removes an additional buff. Buffs cast upon target wear off 250-500% faster.

[saevel]

I'd rather enfeebles be redesigned with some of the effects changed so that we can have some actual enfeebling instead of using spells to outright avoid stuff. I doubt mobs would be immune to paralyze if its effect was "Attack Down & Accuracy Down" instead of "randomly prevents an action". Break could be treated as a stun with a root attached, and so on. Sure, it doesn't work like it did in Final Fantasy VI or VII or X, but they'd fit in the context of an MMORPG.

Another thing to consider would be spells building off each other. Say, Bio's Attack down acting as a booster for Paralyze's effects, or perhaps Slow acting as a booster to Addle. That at least creates a pseudo chain of spells that need to be casted.

Oh, and Dia/Bio being exclusive of each other needs to go away. Giving Attack Down and Defense Down to a mob is not exactly OP, game-breaking or anything.

All our enfeebles are pre-49, any changes to them will also effect WHM, BLM and SCH.

We like to enjoy Dia III at 15%, but BLU/RDM can do Dia II (10%) + Frightful Roar (10%) for a combined defense reduction of 20%. They every debuff under the sun available to them, granted most have "gotchas" attached to them. The idea was for SE to create similar spells for RDM, not available to WHM / BLM / SCH, that allow a RDM to reduce the targets status and reduce it's capability's. Reducing the target's defense is mathematically the same as enhancing everyone's attack, thus you can indirectly buff your alliance. This would be inline with what the dev's vision of RDM is.

[Duelle]

All our enfeebles are pre-49, any changes to them will also effect WHM, BLM and SCH.

I don't believe in spell exclusivity on RDM because the class by concept borrows from other classes. The application and use of the stuff they borrow is what should make the job unique, not whether RDM has spells others do not.

As far as enfeebles, I was aiming directly at the stuff that works in absolutes. It's why I'd suggest something like turning Paralyze into Attack Down & Accuracy Down, with values scaling along with Enfeebling Skill. This makes T2 somewhat moot if you make changes, but I wouldn't loose sleep over T2 enfeebles going away forever and RDM getting something else in place of it. Hell, RDM merits need an overhaul anyways.

Reducing the target's defense is mathematically the same as enhancing everyone's attack, thus you can indirectly buff your alliance. This would be inline with what the dev's vision of RDM is.

Except that Bio could then be used to mitigate incoming damage. Having both spells stack would also make it seem like the spell is not there to just take up space. Nerf the DoT on Bio if the combined DoTs seem to be too much, but both effects should be usable on the same mob.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Would like to see this spell set that has points to waste on Frightful Roar.

And is casting Dia2 because no one else can.

And is having to sub rdm while meleeing- you know what, your scenario is just all kinds of terrible.

[saevel]

I don't believe in spell exclusivity on RDM because the class by concept borrows from other classes. The application and use of the stuff they borrow is what should make the job unique, not whether RDM has spells others do not.

As far as enfeebles, I was aiming directly at the stuff that works in absolutes. It's why I'd suggest something like turning Paralyze into Attack Down & Accuracy Down, with values scaling along with Enfeebling Skill. This makes T2 somewhat moot if you make changes, but I wouldn't loose sleep over T2 enfeebles going away forever and RDM getting something else in place of it. Hell, RDM merits need an overhaul anyways.
Except that Bio could then be used to mitigate incoming damage. Having both spells stack would also make it seem like the spell is not there to just take up space. Nerf the DoT on Bio if the combined DoTs seem to be too much, but both effects should be usable on the same mob.

They should make enfeebling magic job specific on RDM for the same reason Aflatus / Cure V / pretty much all of WHM, is job specific to WHM and why -ja nukes are job specific to BLM. It creates a role for each job to fill and prevents players from abusing one job over the others. This is a thread about buff RDM's enfeebling capacity to make it actually useful, would be counter productive to make awesome debuffs then give them to everyone else.

Monster vs Player melee damage formula works differently then us to the monster. I believe our friends have been busy figuring this out. We've all known for years that defense becomes useless after a certain easy to reach point. That's why turtle PLD's have went the way for the dodo long before Abyssea was every created. You mitigate more damage by killing the target faster then by attempting to reduce it's attack.