How about an Enfeebling Magic thread?

[saevel]

Olymbus Sash = +5

Hyksos Robe = +10~11 - Can be bought so should not be removed. 4 million gil isn't hard to get anymore
Read what I wrote, I only just now got this item and I had to acquire the parts individually and have a LS member synergy it. These are incredibly rare, they require a rare drop off the Windy T3 VWNM turtle and a flame gem. It's NOT a matter of "get gil, goto AH, get item". I tried for months to no avail.

Beneficus = +15, While it exists I've never EVER seen a WHM use it.

Portent Pants = +15
Orison Boots +2 = +20
Augur's Gloves = +5
Enhancing/Colossus's Torque = +7 (do not count special day effects, that is 1/8 of the time tops).
Merciful Cape = +5

I calculated wrong it's only +82 but the point being WHM is NOT behind RDM in any case when it comes to enhancing. Boost and Gain with the correct gear is even, and barspells one of the only other spells effected by Enhancing Skill WHM already trumps RDM on.

And this assumes the WHM is /SCH anyway, most seem to be permanently attached to /BLM for Warp II or /RDM for Vert / Refresh these days.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

And this assumes the WHM is /SCH anyway, most seem to be permanently attached to /BLM for Warp II or /RDM for Vert / Refresh these days.

I don't know, I only ever see WHM/SCH on my server.

[saevel]

I don't know, I only ever see WHM/SCH on my server.

Then your practicing cognitive dissonance.

Which actually explains a lot.

-=Edit=-

I'm not arguing whats best, it's obvious that a WHM with an enhancing set is better then a WHM without one. Just like a WHM going /SCH is better then a WHM going /BLM (/RDM is up in the air).

I'm arguing what's actually being used. Theory is nice on paper, but it's what happens in reality that gets things done. And from every observation /BLM is the predominate sub because of the quantity of D2's that need to be passed around after each fight. Their doing it to speed up travel between fights.

Just like the enhancing set above, I do agree that a dedicated hard core WHM can go out and with lots of work get this insanely awesome enhancing magic set. But what on earth would they use it on? Closest thing is barspells, but we already know the resistance is crap, your really using them for the MDB / MDC effects. And even then, these days having a WHM run into range of the tank during a NM fight usually means BBQ'd WHM.

Now if WHM could target those spells onto someone else, then we'd be talking differently.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

And even then, these days having a WHM run into range of the tank during a NM fight usually means BBQ'd WHM.

It's simple to counteract this, run in after it TP's unless you're feeding it crazy amounts of TP it rarely casts straight after it TP's so it's the perfect time.

[saevel]

It's simple to counteract this, run in after it TP's unless you're feeding it crazy amounts of TP it rarely casts straight after it TP's so it's the perfect time.

Doesn't work at all and shows that you haven't been keeping up with current content.
VWNM's spam TP moves. We've kited Kagan around in circles and he just spasm them, he doesn't need TP. I've done the same to the Vampire and other NM's. SE programmed them to use special moved without needing TP.

Even if you wait till right after Kagan does something, a WHM running in for Baraero would be squashed in the couple of seconds it takes to move in, cast the spell and move out. DD's get their a$$'s handed to them and you expect a WHM to survive? I've lost count on the numbers of dead healers and BRD's I've seen trying to run in and out of range. Even with SS up he'll do 1~2K damage aoe, and then his status effect aoe's like stat drain / gravity / silence work to make it more unbearable.

Same with the big iron giant for windy T4, he spams Arm Cannon, which will one shot and mages near it, erradicator, scapula beam and the sorts.

Blame it on SE, they made monsters cheat. Every last one of them either ignore TP requirements or have a 100tp/tick regain effect.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Doesn't work at all and shows that you haven't been keeping up with current content.
VWNM's spam TP moves. We've kited Kagan around in circles and he just spasm them, he doesn't need TP. I've done the same to the Vampire and other NM's. SE programmed them to use special moved without needing TP.

Even if you wait till right after Kagan does something, a WHM running in for Baraero would be squashed in the couple of seconds it takes to move in, cast the spell and move out. DD's get their a$$'s handed to them and you expect a WHM to survive? I've lost count on the numbers of dead healers and BRD's I've seen trying to run in and out of range. Even with SS up he'll do 1~2K damage aoe, and then his status effect aoe's like stat drain / gravity / silence work to make it more unbearable.

Same with the big iron giant for windy T4, he spams Arm Cannon, which will one shot and mages near it, erradicator, scapula beam and the sorts.

Blame it on SE, they made monsters cheat. Every last one of them either ignore TP requirements or have a 100tp/tick regain effect.

I never said it was foolproof, but for the vast majority of NM's it works perfectly fine. Not all VWNM's spam TP's.. Some do, there is a different.

That said, I'm not against making bar spells -ra cast-able on someone else to counteract this.

[saevel]

I never said it was foolproof, but for the vast majority of NM's it works perfectly fine. Not all VWNM's spam TP's.. Some do, there is a different.

That said, I'm not against making bar spells -ra cast-able on someone else to counteract this.

You did say it was "foolproof"

It's simple to counteract this

Any and all VWNM's act this way, some are just easier to deal with then others. Every last one of them has evil aoe moves, take the Outlands Scorp for example. When he TP moves both of his pets do too, regardless of how much TP any of them has nor their location. When he gets under 50% he will TP move back to back within seconds, the first one will pop both babies (if you've killed them) the second will have all three of them do a move. If it's earth pounder or wild rage then you can kill any mage good bye who's within range, half your DD's with them. Each and every VWNM spams evil aoe's. In the past many / most Abyssea NM's had the same ability, to spam TP moves without needing TP. We had crour buffs so we could often withstand a few of them and not die.

So ... if your not talking the current batch of NMs, VWNM and Abyssea, then which NM's are we discussing? Fafnir, Kirin, KB?