Relics/Mythics/Empy?

[FrankReynolds]

Actually, the terms of the test server do say they can remove people who sign up but never participate.

I know, that's what I said, if you read the whole sentence you quoted.

Relic weapons are not the only way to use the relic weapon skills. They are available as latents on a set of easy to obtain weapons.

same damage, aftermath and all that? wow, that's cool.

[Kitkat]

God, it's like talking to a brick wall... how have you managed to keep your sanity for 8 pages, alhan?

Using the idiom "Like talking to a brick wall" dictates that nothing has been heard, which is not what is happening here. What is happening is you and Alhan are bringing up points that are taken out of context, misconstrued, or bring up points that can, and have been, redirected.

Both of you state "If it isn't on the under development sub-forum it isn't under testing" when there is various aspects added on the test server updates that aren't mentioned on these also.

Then there is "If it doesn't need testing then it isn't going to be there" which can be countered by the fact there is already things that are available to users which don't need to be tested. From weapons to armors, a person who normally runs around in pink gear can already get on the test server and get emp+2 gear, Relic gear, Rare/ex weapons, WoE weapons, etc. None of this is under development but is available making your argument rather invalid in this aspect.

This brings us to your next point "Just ask someone who already has it to test it for you" which has little reality to it when those of us who do have it, can't test it due to population issues. More accurately, the lack thereof. Flowing into you next response of "If these are available then the server will be flooded with people who will log on for 15min to play with them then never log on again" of which already occurs making this totally moot while assuming an awful lot also (Remember the anecdote behind "assume" When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me). Not to mention it clearly states in the sign up process that if they find out you have no intention of testing out the content your access to the server can and will be revoked to free up space for those who will. I also fail to see how a running population, on average, of 10 active people can test everything accurately.

And then the fun of "They are adding invincible mode because of the population issues." As stated before in regards to other already available "toys" on the test server this is equally attached also. In addition to this, depending on how the god mode actually works (from working like invincible for all damage to simply increasing stats to cap like brew, or possibly making it impossible to fall under 1hp) there comes other problems. If it does work like invincible and nullifies all damage, then without being kamikaze how can the content be tested accurately? The only way to counter the issues of giving a god mode to players is to make it more like an immortal mode. Damage, effects, etc still land with visible numbers in chat log, but it is impossible to die/drop under X amount of hp. If it only functions as a null to all damage sources without showing how much the damage actually is, who is to say if the content is unbalanced. Further more there are various battle tactics people use every day that 1-3 people can't test. Why? Because they are limited to the jobs they are on and in most cases can't test these in conjunction with other abilities/effects due to limited number of people participating, thus there are untested aspect of the content still existing with the possibility to break on live servers.

How is taking any point you bring up and logically countering it with various forms of information relating to, not just the test server itself, but bringing up the fact that various other things have broken that were not under development or were not even remotely attached to the updates in any shape or form? An example I can clearly recall is during CoP when Worms had an unexpected break when the effect of silence was cast on them. They suddenly had the ability to run around like other mobs. No changes to worms or silence took place in the update, but it still broke. How about the old Delivery box duplication exploit that SE had no idea about because it was never tested in the way it created duplications. The reason behind this is that users did something completely unexpected. Another example is caps you could fish up in rabao, use in a low level cloth synth, then resell to an NPC for greater than expected gil gains. More recently is the cure effect on undead doing 9999 damage when no noticeable changes were made to cures at all from their pre-existing versions.

The testing of content is to allow users from an everyday usage pool to not just make sure the content is working, but to ensure it has no exploits that could be abused to otherwise make fights too easy, or that it doesn't cause already tested content to unexpectedly break. The reason from this is that general population will use this in unexpected ways that a developer would not expect during the coding process. With the lack of coding in this scenario the content either doesn't work or breaks unexpectedly causing unwanted results.

With this, your "talking to a brick wall" idiom is out of place since your points are being taken and redirected rather than flat out ignored. This is a debate, either you bring something to the table to further prove your cause, or you find ways to squash the opposing view by showing it is over biased or too narrow in scope related to the topic at hand. It isn't a hard concept to grasp, just bring up substantial opposing views that can't be refuted.

[Alhanelem]

God, it's like talking to a brick wall... how have you managed to keep your sanity for 8 pages, alhan?

It doesn't really bother me that much. I have my opinion and I will be very vocal about it, but I don't hate anyone else for disagreeing.

I can undestand the argument that anything that gets more people on the test server is a good thing, however, my perception, given the status of the relic weapons, is that the people who want to "test them"

1) do not have relic weapons of their own and their only interest in going on the test srever is to experience these weapons without having gone through the effort to obtain them, and
2)Such people are only interested in doing the above, and are less likely to test anything else or even report their findings or issues here. The only thing increasing the likelihood of reporting issues with at least the relics is the fact that you must be registered on these forums in order to participate. If it weren't for that condition, my faith would be barely more than zero that any good could possibly come out of it.

Now we have mew weaponskills to test, which should divert even more attention from relics and relic WS, because we have totally new WS which need to be tested and have the kinks hammered out (Only problem is right now, they're nonfunctional due to likely the same problem with the new rolls/pacts). It will be a lot more vaulable to SE if, when they are useable, that you devote time to these.

same damage, aftermath and all that? wow, that's cool.

The catch is in the latent. You have to perform a number of other weapon skills, and after doing so, the relic weaponskill is activated for one use (then you have to charge it up again). However, these are easy drops off of various NMs in abyssea (Get them on the live server and then re-copy your character, if you can't solo them)

[FrankReynolds]

Even if your worst case scenario played out, and everyone logged in, popped a new relic ws and logged back out, never to return, there would be absolutely no harm in it. We've already determined that SE could just invite more testers.

This whole long winded argument all boils down to: Some people think they will be less special if other kids get to play with what they think are their toys.

[Zohnax]

So I just read through the many pages of non-sense arguing and if you honestly don't know what you're talking about, just stop posting. For starters, anything revolving around ToM and upgrading weapons to a higher level, Empys, relics, mythics to Lv99 could have different results than at 95. Not to mention, I personally wanted to the new WS with both Spharai/Verethragna to see how the damage weighs out for myself. It's a test server, we should be able to test everything being adjusted and I found it kind of annoying to see my Spharai(95) is a pair of gloves that are somehow a sword. You talk about supporting productivity with testing but yet I just read through how many pages of arguing over your lack of will to admit you were wrong and you feel that certain people who -are- using the test server don't need to know various bits of information about forthcoming adjustments so that they can spread it to others who may have those weapons. Logic much?

[FrankReynolds]

As if there is anyone on the test server who signed up just so that they could help SE produce a better product......

They are all there because they want to mess with new stuff that they don't have and may never get. SE doesn't need people to be pure of heart. They just need people to go mess with stuff.

Bah! Where's my weapon?!?

[Kitkat]

Dec. 16, 2011 03:53 [PST] From: FINAL FANTASY XI
Current Known Issues with the Version Update (Dec. 16)

We have identified the following issue after the version update that took place on Dec. 14, 2011.

- An issue wherein equipping a relic or mythic weapon, whose level requirement is 90 or above, as a sub-weapon will enable status effects that are not intended.

We are currently in the process of testing fixes to address this issue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

Is this the part where someone is supposed to say "I told you so"? Even though I posted a thread stating this a month prior...apparently it didn't go through until after the update went live.

[Kitkat]

As of the update to test server seems you can now obtain relics/mythics/emp from the Trial moogle. Choose the trial, go to reward and view it, moogle will ask if you wish to obtain this item. Choose yes and the item will be placed in inventory

[Zumi]

Yea you can now test all relic/mythic/empyrean. Easier if you look up the trail number for the weapon you want most specifically the 95 version, click on the reward item and obtain it.

[Unleashhell]

And look at this... Good thing people tested some relics on the test server and found this info out weeks ago. Oh but yeah we don't need to test relics on the test servers, they are just toys someone said.