Relics/Mythics/Empy?

[Alhanelem]

To test hidden effects?

You don't need to test hidden effects if you don't have the relic weapon. The information is of no use to you. Empyreans do not have hidden effects to my knowledge, and I don't think Mythics do either but I don't know abotut those.

Maybe I'm just too generous, but theres absolutely no way you can believe the crap you're saying right now.

I do believe it, because it's not crap. If you don't have a relic weapon, you don't need to test a relic weapon on the test server. There is no true motivation for giving them other than to give people toys to play with. People don't want to test them, they want to have fun with them. That's not what the test server is for. It's not necessary, not important, and not part of what the current test session is intended for.

You don't NEED relic weapons for testing unless you happen to own one anyway, no ifs, ands or buts.

Which would have been 100% Unknown unless someone had the 95 harpe and tested it,

This knowledge would have little value if nobody had the harp in the first place.

[Byrth]

It would be nice if, for instance, I knew what "Augments Steps IV" did before I dropped 30k Alexandrite onto an NPC. The test server is the perfect way to let people figure stuff like that out. You're just being stubborn.

[Alhanelem]

You're right, I'm being stubborn, because relic weapons are not necessary for testing. They're not what the testing is about and not what SE wants you to focus on. They're already spending extra dev time to provide us with other more useful testing functions. You want them to take even more so you can play with relic weapons?

Focus on the task at hand, testing the new content and finding bugs. You're missing the spirit and point of the test server. At this point, everyone's stance is quite clear, so there's likely no reason to continue beyond this point.

[SNK]

You're right, I'm being stubborn, because relic weapons are not necessary for testing.

Who says that they shouldn't be tested as well? I mean I know I'm not the only one who remembers after an update when Apoc's aftermath got borked and it took close to a month if I recall for SE to even realize or deal with it. This game is a load of sphagetti code and an update to one thing can end up breaking something else.


Then again I'm replying to the guy who flat out said there weren't any hidden effects.

[Alhanelem]

Then again I'm replying to the guy who flat out said there weren't any hidden effects.

That there weren't any NEW hidden effects, not that there weren't any I know the relic weapons have hidden effects. What I didn't know is that some of those effects changed with the magian trials.. That doesn't mean that it's suddenly critically important that everyone and their mother be issued relic weapons on the test server.

This game is a load of sphagetti code and an update to one thing can end up breaking something else.

Yiou're absolutely right- all the more reason not to touch this stuff. Even a message box listing the relic weapons might some how (*#&$ them up.

Now it's time to move on. I've made my opinion clear as have you.

[SNK]

Yiou're absolutely right- all the more reason not to touch this stuff. Even a message box listing the relic weapons might some how (*#&$ them up.

No, You're not quite getting the spahgetti code point. Adjusting one thing which could have literally nothing to do with a relic has before in a nutshell, messed up a relic. Rememeber that last update where Cure spells got borked and people could kill undead for 50k a shot with just a Cure I?

They obviously didn't change anything about the spell Cure itself but somehow something they added in that patch borked it and of course we had an emergency maintence to fix it.

The game is in my eyes a programmer's nightmare when you're checking and double-checking code to make sure what you add doesn't effect something previous installed into the game. The DeV team isn't perfect and time and again stuff gets by that they miss. We understand that and respect the work that they've put into the game.

However the point stands that relics shouldn't be above testing because they are a part of the game as well.

[Kitkat]

When I look through this debate all I see is this in TL;DR mode:

People: I have an apple, but I want that orange too.

Alhanelem: Make due with the apple, better yet make some apple juice.

People: I want some oranges cause orange juice is better.

Alhanelem: Too bad, the oranges aren't for you. Make do with the apple.

People: I want the oranges, they might be sweeter or have that sour bite to them. I'd like to know for myself.

Alhanelem: Why not just ask the people who have the oranges already?

People: Because their experiences with it is different, they have had them for a while. I might do something with the oranges they never thought about.

Alhanelem: I'm sure they can figure it out for themselves, it isn't necessary to give you the oranges just for that.
/TL;DR mode

Alhanelem is just being the mean parent not wanting to let the children play. The ideal that a "relic is a privilege and not a right" is a rather lucid debate topic when it comes to testing. They aren't getting to keep the weapon, the weapon will be going through further changes soon, and there are going to be a lot of additions to what jobs can do that they couldn't before. A small sample size is never an accurate way to test anything.

Currently there is quite a bit of content that can't be fully tested due to low population on the test server. Offering the ability to use a relic/emp/mythic might help this. Using the "they are going to offer invincibility soon too" is counter productive being as this isn't going to be an option when the content goes live. The weapons will still exist when the content is live, and I have a feeling it won't be any less distributed through all worlds as it would end up being on the test server. Mainly due to limited space on test server as is.

The test server already is a play ground by offering a good deal of the "better" gear via GM moogle. I am not seeing a big issue in it being more of a play ground if it is incentive to bring more to the test server so that group-based testing of the new content being added (WOE, VWNM, and in time "The Last Stand") so that it can be tested as it will be completed after going live; in a group based setting rather than a few using the invincibility option that SE mentioned will be added later.

I don't know about you, but there is a fair bit on the test server that is there for the purpose of testing but can't be due to the low population. If it would give me the opportunity to partake in some of the newer content to fully test in various angles then I can't really argue to not allowing it. Eventually it'll be part of the test content anyway.

[Alhanelem]

Alhanelem is just being the mean parent not wanting to let the children play.

No, i'm being the level-headed, productive person who wants a test server to accomplish it's purpose- to test the content the devs want us to test. You are analogizing apples and oranges, but it's more like using the pickup truck vs asking for the keys to the Ferrari. You don't need the Ferrari to get the job done.

[Kitkat]

No, i'm being the level-headed, productive person who wants a test server to accomplish it's purpose- to test the content the devs want us to test. You are analogizing apples and oranges, but it's more like using the pickup truck vs asking for the keys to the Ferrari. You don't need the Ferrari to get the job done.

You aren't really being level headed at all since you are focusing on one primary point actually. A level headed individual takes a unilateral and unbiased approach to come to a distinct conclusion. Your primary points actually dictate you have a very one sided view on the subject and is shown by how eagerly you dismiss apposing views on it.

Your analogy is worse than mine actually. Trucks serve far different purposes from a Ferrari. If you wanted to use vehicles to express an analogy of relic/myth/emps it would be more akin to a base model of a car to the same model with all the bells and whistles, the only difference being that emp/myth/relics are just different makes (chevy/ford/dodge). Each offering something different, bells and whistles wise, to accommodate being useful over one another. Anyway, moving away from the analogies for now.

The test server is in essence a big play ground with a plethora of toys at an individuals grasp. Relic/emp/mythic weapons would be no more different than the fact SE is planning to give invincibility for testing purpose later on in the terms of "play things." The biggest functional difference between this being that on Live servers (non-test servers) the weapons will still exist where as the invincibility won't. Allowing people the toys to play with doesn't necessarily negate their ability to test the actual content of the game either.

I have both a relic (mandau) and an emp (almace) but you know what? They don't really see much use on the test server because there isn't enough like minded people on the server at a given time to fully test the content being added when it comes to WoE or VWNM. The purpose of a test server is for an individual to test it anyway, and everyway, possible to be sure that one minor thing doesn't break an intended outcome of the content. You've also constantly dismissed the fact that the weapons are undergoing constant increases in their functions, from base damage, to additional stats, to additional hidden effects. Dat mining sources show that there is possibly a very big change coming to relic/mythic/emps in what is being called "afterglow/aftercircle." Depending on how this effect works, it could possibly be unbalancing in content. In most cases this never gets the chance to be tested by those with the weapons because...well they need help or high quantities of an item to upgrade it on the test server. There is no simple way to upgrade it to the next stage on the test server, thus "just let the holders of the weapons find out for you" becomes a moot point.

The test server was made to test things, not limit an individual or tell them to use what they have. If this were the case, there wouldn't be moogles to give you better than what you have already (AF3+2, WoE, Rare/EX weapons, Salvage gear, Abjuration+1 gear, etc). Once again, the weapons themselves are going under changes from 95-99, thus are part of the test content. The weapons will not give anymore of an advantage to an individual than the proposed invincibility they plan to add to the test server. The opportunity to have a higher population for group related testing outweighs any advantages the weapons may give since it is better than not having the population to test content with at all. The only aspect of your debate I see is "They are toys and unnecessary" and that is true, but everything the GM moogle offers can be given the same point making your entire objection to allowing an individual to have access to the weapons moot on this basis alone.

[Atomic_Skull]

wall-o-text

Well I didn't read most of that because I couldn't be bothered to read the huge wall of text but if the GM Moogle starts handing out relics and emps the test server will be flooded with people who are not interested in testing.

Next time try being more concise and to the point instead of trying to bury people under a mountain of words.