Final Heaven builds

[Monchat]

vereth's strength comes from its aftermaths, while spharai's aftermaths blows. Since SE clearly refuses to fix relic, the only possible thing that can make relic better, is the new WS we will get.

From parsings, Victory smite is easilly 30% or more than spharai's asuran fists. But the new weaponskill doesn't have to be better than victory smite. If it is somewhere between asuran fists and VS, the relic will be #1 again, just need to know how much better than asuran fists it needs to be. Lol I sold all my sellable FH gears now that im convinced it cannot break asuran fists and bought some good asuran gear sets out there [ rager ledelsens, mars's ring and the str+4 att+15 necklace]. There is also a new atack+25 back item. Im easilly 100 attack above my VS or FH gear sets , and do quite good asurans ( 1800s when vere would do 2200).

[MarkovChain]

The problem is that you need to large of a WS boost to make them match (30% ish) since melee dot is about equal in the end.

[Atoreis]

JP MNK on Qilin today had 43/57 melee/WS ratio split.
His avg Vsmite was 1937 and he did one Asuran for 700.
Even assuming Relic Asuran would be closer to 1k it is still far far from Veret.
I dont have time to math it now because of RL but since you are so interested... wouldnt Ascetic fury beat Asuran by fair margin at least with Impetus up?

[MarkovChain]

Ascetic fury sucks. The math of verethragna vs FH vs asuran was done earlier give us a break. Vere thragna melee /ws split is 62%/38% with normal gear and buffs.

[Monchat]

ascetic Blows... My parses ( lv 95 mobs in dynamis): asuran fists with relic 95 versus victory smite with vere 90 (300 samples each set):

lv 95 Mob1:AF=1400 VS=1800
lv95 Mob2:AF=1900 VS=2200
lv95 Mob3: AF=1500 VS=1800

Both WS with optimized gearsets, red curry, minuet V no dia, no berzerk. This gives an idea of the relative difference and VS is at most 30% better on average.

[MarkovChain]

the mobs were level 95-96 since they are dyn mobs. Maybe 97.

[Greatguardian]

I'm really just curious at this point, but is there a reason you're alternating posting with your own mule? Or is that just MDKuser?

Honestly, I'm not too surprised that Asuran has a solid trail behind Smite. It's a solid WS. Most people just haven't bothered updating their set for it too much since 85. I didn't really expect Final Heaven to be worth a damn either, so I suppose everything turned out as expected.

[Atoreis]

Ascetic fury sucks. The math of verethragna vs FH vs asuran was done earlier give us a break. Vere thragna melee /ws split is 62%/38% with normal gear and buffs.

You need to be less defensive really.
I didnt write it to prove you wrong just wanted to show how things change basing on event you do.
On dynamis its 62/38 but on VW its more like 45/55. Non crit WS loses much more on harder things too. Avg Vsmite will be probably at least 70% better than Asuran on mobs like Qilin.

[MarkovChain]

No way lol. Your critical hit rate will be garbage unless you get some drink. It will be most likely floored at 10% + a few base (and I use 20% as base, so 30% total), that won't change the outcome much. Your JP guy does 2k it means that mob doesn't have defense.

As an exemple using +100 def compared to normal on a mob with +7 level correction I find
FH=1249 VS=1876 AF=1563

Using +200 def on a mob with +7 level correction I find
FH=975 VS=1586 AF=1352

Using +100 def on a mob with +10 level I find
FH=1100 VS=1681 AF=1388

Using +200 def on a mob with +10 level I find
FH=803 VS=1366 AF=1253

Let's put everything extreme, +400 def and +15 level correction :
FH=412.6170984 VS=952.5869455 AF=649.4817002

So in an absurdely defavorable situation VS is 46% better than asuran and in the others it's 20%,17%,21%,9%

When you increase the level difference even more the critical hit rate will be pathetic due to too high level correction so it's going to be <9%. The only thing that can make VS very high compared to asuran is near capped crit rate or moderate level correction and irreallistic defense.

[Atoreis]

No way lol. Your critical hit rate will be garbage unless you get some drink. It will be most likely floored at 10% + a few base (and I use 20% as base, so 30% total), that won't change the outcome much. Your JP guy does 2k it means that mob doesn't have defense.

As an exemple using +100 def compared to normal on a mob with +7 level correction I find
FH=1249 VS=1876 AF=1563

Using +200 def on a mob with +7 level correction I find
FH=975 VS=1586 AF=1352

Using +100 def on a mob with +10 level I find
FH=1100 VS=1681 AF=1388

Using +200 def on a mob with +10 level I find
FH=803 VS=1366 AF=1253

I am pretty sure that Vsmite is at least +15% at 100TP. Merit + base is 10%. Rancor is 5%. That's 30% and now there is impetus that is hard to tell really but assuming 90% accuracy its at least 5% crit rate and damage.

So at least 35%crit rate during Impetus and at least 5% crit damage.

In practice its much more actually because there can be WAR or 2 in party that will throw you blood rage. You might be more lucky on hits with Impetus ( like for example with 90% accuracy you can miss 2 in a row than hit 18 in a row and then your avg from impetus will raise ). Parse is best prove tho. I parsed them on 6 fights and on everytime his avg Vsmite was higher than WARs Ukkos and thats possible only with higher or similar crit rate and WAR have around 50% easily.