Final Heaven builds

[MarkovChain]

No relic can't proc on WS.

So Relic can now proc x3 on WS cool.

If you really think Veret wont win with Spharai(using FH) in term of pure damage you might rethink doing a math for this game at all ^^

It doesn't because mob have finite HP and I verify it every day in dynamis. I got level 95 vere and mdk uses the level 95 relic and we pull 500ish coins both so yeah. So yeah it will probably hurt your ego but my math doesn't include 3x proc on WS and spharai owns by a large margin.

[Monchat]

go ahead do the math smart ass [in before: lets assume 30%/70% ws/melee split kind of fail BG maths]

Also he never said that you can get a triple proc. I said myself I never got it ( or just maybe once, which could also be a epnona's ring proc). Just mention it because someone in the early post in the tread said it can. Its not hard to imagine verethragna will lose if its aftermath isnt up often.

You're quick at denoucing people to the internet police lol.

[Atoreis]

go ahead do the math smart ass [in before: lets assume 30%/70% ws/melee split kind of fail BG maths]

Also he never said that you can get a triple proc. I said myself I never got it ( or just maybe once, which could also be a epnona's ring proc). Just mention it because someone in the early post in the tread said it can. Its not hard to imagine verethragna will lose if its aftermath isnt up often.

You're quick at denoucing people to the internet police lol.

Relic proc on WS would triple you WS dmg. Triple attack from epona on Final heaven is +50%. 2x Triple attack is double the damage. If Pchan was confused because of you than you should apologize him

Relic triple proc assumin your 30/70 split is only like +4% overall damage ( how? 10% for triple is +20% dmg from melee but its only for one hand so its 10%. This 10% * 0.7 (from split) is 7%. Relic cant proc on second or third hit of DA/TA and thats like at least 15-20% of you hits. 6%*0.85 is 5.1%. Now fists damage from melee damage is around 90% ( 10% is kicks on which relic cant proc either. 90/10 fists/kicks dmaage split is total guess in favor of spharai. correct me if i am very wrong here. that makes 5.1*0.9= 4.59% Add accuracy correction (95%) and overkilling and you have around 4% increase in overall damage from relic triple proc. Assuming Pchan's avg Vsmite and Final heaven which is hard to believe but I will use it anyway. Avg Smite is ~16% higher. 16%*0.3 (from your melee/ws split again) is 4.8% overall increase (around 4% after acc correction and overkill). So even using your super skewed numbers Spharai is equal in dmg to Veret w/o aftermath up at all.

If you only joked about 30/70 split tell me plz what is true split because I seriously dont know, never tried to check/parse it because it will be different for all kind of events (for example squishy dynamis and VW when you have 20-45 saveTP, 5-10regain/tic, wings). But I will gladly listen what is a true ws/melee split for MNK.

INB4: BG math is useless. You are the only one that can do it right

[MarkovChain]

You don't know the split or how you could calculate the split ? It's means that you can't math out any DD. So yeah your place is truly on BG. Even alla mnk forums can do it.

1) Relic is 12% proc on one hand
2) No one said triple will proc on DA or on TA
3) You didn't read what is being discussed ; you are a troll. I explained that if there were no pause between mobs vere will win easily, so go back to being a tool.
4) I gave the average number of rounds required for a WS on average so with this, If you could calculate melee damage or WS damage, which you can't (judging from your post), you would be able to get the split.
5) why would the split be the same for the three situations : relic+FH/vere/relic+AF ¿

For your information in typical situations with 3 seconds delay
*relic melee damage average (including kick and triple) is 5% better than vere (including odd and kick)
* VS damage is 35% better than FH and asuran is 2% better than FH.
* Verehtragna TPs 6% less often than spharai

As a result in this case relic beats vere by 1.2%, and asuran is better anyway.

For your information in typical situations with infinite HP mobs
*relic melee damage average (including kick and triple) is 4.4% better than vere (including odd and kick)
* VS damage is 38% better than FH and asuran is ~2% better than FH.
* Verehtragna TPs 5.4% less often than spharai

As a result in this case vere is better by ~12%

[Atoreis]

You don't know the split or how you could calculate the split ? It's means that you can't math out any DD. So yeah your place is truly on BG. Even alla mnk forums can do it.

1) Relic is 12% proc on one hand
2) No one said triple will proc on DA or on TA
3) You didn't read what is being discussed ; you are a troll. I explained that if there were no pause between mobs vere will win easily, so go back to being a tool.
4) I gave the average number of rounds required for a WS on average so with this, If you could calculate melee damage or WS damage, which you can't (judging from your post), you would be able to get the split.
5) why would the split be the same for the three situations : relic+FH/vere/relic+AF ¿

For your information in typical situations with 3 seconds delay
*relic melee damage average (including kick and triple) is 5% better than vere (including odd and kick)
* VS damage is 35% better than FH and asuran is 2% better than FH.
* Verehtragna TPs 6% less often than spharai

As a result in this case relic beats vere by 1.2%, and asuran is better anyway.

For your information in typical situations with infinite HP mobs
*relic melee damage average (including kick and triple) is 4.4% better than vere (including odd and kick)
* VS damage is 38% better than FH and asuran is ~2% better than FH.
* Verehtragna TPs 5.4% less often than spharai

As a result in this case vere is better by ~12%

Its not about I cant math it. It is just different for many events and situation. I just dont care for it that much.
Believe in w/e you want tho. In the end we play for fun.

[Greatguardian]

I'm mainly wondering if you're using the incorrect assumption that Vereth Aftermath does not overwrite itself? Assuming you are getting Haste buffs, which you say you are, and there is only a 3 second delay between each fight, you should not be dropping Aftermath at all.

You keep saying that 3 second pauses between fights will cause Vere's Aftermath to be down for a significant chunk of time, but I'm having a hard time substantiating that claim. If you're going to post math in response to this, please have the courtesy to include units and proper formatting for us. You seemed to calculate WS frequency in terms of rounds to 100 TP last time, but that was completely irrelevant to the question I asked. The important number was Time to 100 TP in Seconds, because that would determine how long Vere's Aftermath goes down, if at all.

I think this was caused by a misunderstanding of what I had meant when I said WS frequency, maybe? Regardless, the number I was looking for was how often you were Weaponskilling, in Seconds, which is based on your post-buff Delay. Assuming Marches+Haste, or 68.3% Haste, that's a delay of 104.927. Assuming we use your calculations on Rounds/WS, that's 7.04931 rounds or 739.6629 delay per WS. That translates to 12.32 seconds per WS. Aftermath level 1 has a duration of 30 seconds and overwrites itself. In what situation are you going going to spend more than 18 seconds between weaponskills with a 3 second delay between mobs? If this does not occur, then Vere Aftermath will never drop at all.

[MarkovChain]

you don't have 104 delay since it caps at 106 first, secondly the aftermath doesn't overwrite itself.

[Greatguardian]

104=>106 delay doesn't change the numbers by very much, and are you entirely sure that Level 1 Aftermath doesn't overwrite itself? =/. Nearly a year with my Vere and I've never seen AM drop unless I'm idling or using a Level 2 or 3 Aftermath.

[MarkovChain]

Nvm it overwrite itself. However the point still stands as far as procing goes which is the only content in the game right now.

[MarkovChain]

After fixing the program Vere is still confortably (10%) ahead of relic in the case a 3s delay between mobs. Secondly asuran still pawns FH which is the news of the thread.