Blue mage logic is based on a level 75 game

[Kitkat]

Guess "situational" isn't in your vocabulary? Apparently neither is the '/' usage meaning and/or. Already said something about pdt/mdt sets. Aggressor can help on the dismal accuracy rate of heavy strike where using it is applicable to avoid excessive TP feed, or other spells meet high end mitigation lowering output in comparison. Either that or you are just seeking to side-step any chance of mute, also rare but does happen on a few fights. Also I don't know how this had anything to do with Abyssea, especially since in there blu's melee is rather exceptional so the point of MM is moot.

Not sure where you are getting that blu's damage output isn't that great from a melee stand-point. Aside from slashing resistant mobs or VWNM melee isn't an issue as it is, especially with an Almace. Can't compare it to a 2hander, that is rather asinine since it is a completely different class of weapon, same for ranged attackers, not to mention blu has always been split percentages between melee and spell damage placing it apart from other 1handers that have other options of increasing their own damage output via job abilities. Then there is the ability to self skill chain to also make up for lack of melee deficiencies.

I don't have a problem, it is called "what if" reasoning. Stand back, asses, and make rational conclusions based on what if scenarios. Blu is a versatile job that fits niche spots, but relies on combination of spell and melee dmg output. In the recent year this has changed from spell primary to melee primary again, but still relies on spell output to make up the difference other DD classes pull ahead with.

Sorry if stating reasons as to why blu wouldn't get DWIII has somehow offended your ego or pride as a blu, but much like other jobs potentially not getting what they want it is based of a reasoning of over all balance rather than performance of one specific job. Perfect example is Heavy Strike; in the testing phase it was huge change in how well blu could perform, breaking numbers that were not easily attainable prior and incredible benefits. Now look at it, low accuracy, lowered output...not much better than other options. I'm a pessimist, even jobs I love to play will see the same scrutiny as jobs I don't when expecting something more. That is just how I am. If blu is going to get it then so should thf, cause that would be completely rational so thf can do the same thing, right? And yes, that does have merit to the topic since it is a matter of balance, not single job enhancements.

[Prothscar]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Guess "situational" isn't in your vocabulary? Apparently neither is the '/' usage meaning and/or. Already said something about pdt/mdt sets. Aggressor can help on the dismal accuracy rate of heavy strike where using it is applicable to avoid excessive TP feed, or other spells meet high end mitigation lowering output in comparison. Either that or you are just seeking to side-step any chance of mute, also rare but does happen on a few fights. Also I don't know how this had anything to do with Abyssea, especially since in there blu's melee is rather exceptional so the point of MM is moot.

What [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] does mute have to do with Aggressor? Seriously? And BLU's melee is far from exceptional anywhere, it's mediocre at best. Abyssea is currently 50% or more of the game, applying a subjob to it is as relevant as applying it to anything else. Hint: You'd want to be /DNC for voidwatch for extra procs in most cases.

Not sure where you are getting that blu's damage output isn't that great from a melee stand-point. Aside from slashing resistant mobs or VWNM melee isn't an issue as it is, especially with an Almace. Can't compare it to a 2hander, that is rather asinine since it is a completely different class of weapon, same for ranged attackers, not to mention blu has always been split percentages between melee and spell damage placing it apart from other 1handers that have other options of increasing their own damage output via job abilities. Then there is the ability to self skill chain to also make up for lack of melee deficiencies.

BLU can't even compare to NIN but we'll go with your two-hander argument, which is basically saying exactly what I did: BLU's melee is not that great. I would be a pretty bad BLU if I didn't know that spells are a part of damage, but when a MNK does the same amount of damage as a spell just in an attack round that's sort of a moot point. Also BLU is not alone in its ability to self skillchain, plenty of relevant DD jobs can also do it.

I don't have a problem, it is called "what if" reasoning. Stand back, asses, and make rational conclusions based on what if scenarios. Blu is a versatile job that fits niche spots, but relies on combination of spell and melee dmg output. In the recent year this has changed from spell primary to melee primary again, but still relies on spell output to make up the difference other DD classes pull ahead with.

What if BLU were a good DD? It would be fantastic. Anything a BLU can do another job can do better, usually by a considerable margin. The only thing that BLU does best out of any job is hate free damage over extended periods of time (arguable, SMN is probably better for this really). Physical DD and Healing are the two things we come even close to being good at, DD being mediocre and healing being severely stunted by being party-only. No spell that you will cast will ever bring you close to a top end DD.

Sorry if stating reasons as to why blu wouldn't get DWIII has somehow offended your ego or pride as a blu, but much like other jobs potentially not getting what they want it is based of a reasoning of over all balance rather than performance of one specific job. Perfect example is Heavy Strike; in the testing phase it was huge change in how well blu could perform, breaking numbers that were not easily attainable prior and incredible benefits. Now look at it, low accuracy, lowered output...not much better than other options. I'm a pessimist, even jobs I love to play will see the same scrutiny as jobs I don't when expecting something more. That is just how I am. If blu is going to get it then so should thf, cause that would be completely rational so thf can do the same thing, right? And yes, that does have merit to the topic since it is a matter of balance, not single job enhancements.

Your "reasons" for BLU not getting DWIII haven't effected me in the slightest; [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] Unfortunately a lack of an opposing opinion could lead to the masses thinking that the one side that's accounted for is right since there is no other valid argument. Dual Wield III is almost a certainty at this time. If you don't understand how a natural Dual Wield III for BLU won't break the game, then I don't know. I'm certainly not wasting energy explaining to you the basic mechanics of the game so that you can piece it together yourself.


Side note for heavy strike: If by "incredible benefits" you mean giving us one relevant source of damage on anything above a basic Incredibly Tough monster, then yes, that was quite incredible.

[Kitkat]

Find it interesting how people expect hybrid jobs to be primary jobs. Not a kiddo, but if you want to sink to that to try and make your point have fun. Also, keep in mind this isn't ffxiah nor bg, try to keep the rebuttals clean of foul language. And moving on....

What other forms of damage does mnk have other than raw melee dmg? It doesn't, so complaining that one round (this would include all hit sources such da/ta/kicks/aftermath since no way would 2 hits otherwise put out upwards of 1k+ unless in abyssea which is not the only thing in the game) is equal to spell dmg is peculiar given the build of the job. If anything this is acceptable due to the onesided nature of the job.

How has the various options available to nin aged in comparison to their low delay, high DoT per min. output? Throwing ammo is virtually non-existant or no one makes it and spells require gearing for it to increase and stabilize output from this option. Once again, the comparison falls short due to the build of the job compared to the build of blu.

Thf runs into the similar issues you speak of on blu. However, other than raw dmg via ws and JA, and high dot per min. what else do they have for dmg output? Once again, due to the build of the job seeing a thf's dot surpass a blu melee dot is actually balanced.

2handers get the option of /sam, but once again the 2hander comparison is overly biased due to the different scaling and higher base thus different class of weapon compared to a one-hander. Ranged falls into the same category as they have 2 base dmg combinations that work in tandem with one another to make a single high base dmg which is still double-triple that of a one-handers weapon. These jobs are built for primary physical damage output.

In comparison to this, blu's melee output is higher than true mediocre jobs (dnc, cor, etc) with access to good gear options both TP and WS based and the ability to set passive traits that enhance this. The build of blu is not centered around melee, it only takes it into consideration in a broad overview of the jobs build.

Considering the flexible nature of the job as well as secondary damage output options I'm failing to see how blu is "mediocre" when it is built more to be a hybrid than a primary damage source. Why should a job be unbalanced to enhance a narrowed view of what the job is fully capable of?

[Tashan]

We get more of a kick out of Triple Attack than our Gimped Double Attack.

It's just dependant if you want to set the spells for it or not.

If I'm messing around I'd like to see BLU/WAR with TAtk and DA.

BLU/WAR is currently my favourite setup. I absolutely love stacking Berserk and Triumphant Roar. It's easy to gain around 300 ATK with just those two alone and even more with Stalwarts Tonic instead of TR. I also love having a JA for claiming and pulling; being able to keep running and do it rather than stand still is a lot easier.

[Prothscar]

Find it interesting how people expect hybrid jobs to be primary jobs. Not a kiddo, but if you want to sink to that to try and make your point have fun. Also, keep in mind this isn't ffxiah nor bg, try to keep the rebuttals clean of foul language. And moving on....

What other forms of damage does mnk have other than raw melee dmg? It doesn't, so complaining that one round (this would include all hit sources such da/ta/kicks/aftermath since no way would 2 hits otherwise put out upwards of 1k+ unless in abyssea which is not the only thing in the game) is equal to spell dmg is peculiar given the build of the job. If anything this is acceptable due to the onesided nature of the job.

How has the various options available to nin aged in comparison to their low delay, high DoT per min. output? Throwing ammo is virtually non-existant or no one makes it and spells require gearing for it to increase and stabilize output from this option. Once again, the comparison falls short due to the build of the job compared to the build of blu.

Thf runs into the similar issues you speak of on blu. However, other than raw dmg via ws and JA, and high dot per min. what else do they have for dmg output? Once again, due to the build of the job seeing a thf's dot surpass a blu melee dot is actually balanced.

2handers get the option of /sam, but once again the 2hander comparison is overly biased due to the different scaling and higher base thus different class of weapon compared to a one-hander. Ranged falls into the same category as they have 2 base dmg combinations that work in tandem with one another to make a single high base dmg which is still double-triple that of a one-handers weapon. These jobs are built for primary physical damage output.

In comparison to this, blu's melee output is higher than true mediocre jobs (dnc, cor, etc) with access to good gear options both TP and WS based and the ability to set passive traits that enhance this. The build of blu is not centered around melee, it only takes it into consideration in a broad overview of the jobs build.

Considering the flexible nature of the job as well as secondary damage output options I'm failing to see how blu is "mediocre" when it is built more to be a hybrid than a primary damage source. Why should a job be unbalanced to enhance a narrowed view of what the job is fully capable of?

I've already acknowledged that BLU is a hybrid, but it's so much of a hybrid that everything it does is useless compared to other jobs. With the exception of Regurgitation for extended fights and procs, BLU has nothing to offer that other jobs cannot do better. That's the fact of the matter, you can say BLU is a hybrid all you want, but it's only a hybrid at being bad.

Side note, did you just say BLU is a better DD than COR? lol'd

[Kitkat]

If you say so guy, all anyone can do at these forums is complain at how bad a job is because it doesn't do something better than a job it was never meant to in the first place. Enjoy saying the job is far more horrible than it actually is.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You want a DD? Blu isn't first choice.
Healer? Not looking for Blu as first choice.
Buffer? This one's a joke, right?
Tank? Still not looking for Blu as first choice.
Hate free DD? Not looking for Blu as first choice. (although Blu does very well with Regurg)

A job that can (mostly bar buffing/healing on stronger NMs) adequately fill all of these roles as necessary but not better than a specialist? Now you're looking for Blu.

[Prothscar]

You want a DD? Blu isn't first choice.
Healer? Not looking for Blu as first choice.
Buffer? This one's a joke, right?
Tank? Still not looking for Blu as first choice.
Hate free DD? Not looking for Blu as first choice. (although Blu does very well with Regurg)

A job that can (mostly bar buffing/healing on stronger NMs) adequately fill all of these roles as necessary but not better than a specialist? Now you're looking for Blu.

This. It's good at nothing, mediocre at most. Tell yourself what you must, Kitkat, but a BLU will never be as good as another job in any of the roles that it can fill.

[Kitkat]

I never said it did, but you make it sound like it is the worst at everything possible when it isn't. I'm trying to understand your reasoning that blu sucks, but I can't see it based on the build of the job. I especially can't see it when you compare it to a primary role because blu wasn't built that way.

[Tashan]

I agree with Kitkat.