Cure V

[Swords]

In addition the mobs past level 85 are hitting harder and faster requiring more healing power to stay alive especially nm. The combination of Cure V and Cure 4 will just barely put us at the 1000hp point at best short of gear and other bonus mods. With all the Cure potency stuff WHM gets what the F are you whm crying about? I swear i saw a screenshot some where of a whm curing for over 1500hp(cant remember where) so how is that going to make us a better healer? In any case Cure IV + Curing waltz III = 700~750 of my ~1400 hp where Cure V + Cure IV or Cure V+ CWIII would be about 1000/1400 and a WHM can basically cure to full health with one Cure V + Divine Seal, so am i missing something or are you WHM just idiots?

That's pretty much exactly what SE fears, and yes I know there are limitations to these spells and there are all the bonuses SE gave WHM that should prevent the mainstream from going back to the old ToAU experience, however being able to cure for 1/3-1/2 a players HP in a single volley was enough for players back at 75, and if players can get away with the least amount of support they will take the one with the most tools to get by with minimal downtime and that's still RDM. (Not to mention RDM/WHM could DS + Cure V as well for about as good)

Anyways that aside, HP pools are only a few hundred hp bigger than they were at 75 (Excluding Abyssea since 98% of the game does not have absurd hp bonuses), and there isn't much content aside from Voidwatch and a few Abyssea mobs that would pose a threat to one's hp significant enough our Cures can't really handle (glaring exceptions aside). But I doubt SE is ever going to come through with Cure V until they bring the game up to a standard where most endgame content can pose a threat and Zerg tactics can't be abused.

That's just personal opinion though.

[Siiri]

The whole argument that White mage has more healing skill is a joke, because currently healing skill matters very little in the cure formula. With the advent of the cure staff with potency +23%, which any serious healer should have, plus all the new cure potency gear that came out in the past year, the cure potency argument is invalid as well. Cure potency caps at 50%, so the fact that white mage could get 60% or whatever and RDM only 50% is fairly pointless as well.

The reason white mages and SE apparently think Cure V may imbalance the healing jobs, is white mage was marginalized to a degree at 75. I been playing since 2005 and I remember well things like the airship fight and our white mage being told they weren't allowed to come because only red mage could heal that fight. (The white mage wasn't me, I only had black mage at that time. ) That advanced to my limbus shell saying white mages were never allowed in limbus except for bosses, on to Salvage where it was red mage only as well. Of course experience was the most egregious example of white mage being excluded.

SE attempted to rectify this with the solace and misery adjustments, but even at 75 white mage was a second class healer in some people's opinion. So just dumping Cure V on red mage and scholar, who bring mp longetivity and high tier nukes compared to a white mage, may make the balance skew away from the job whose only purpose is to heal. Will the cureskin update, the advanced bar spells, the curagas, etc make it so white mage is still the preferred healer if scholar and red mage get Cure V. I am not sure, maybe, but right now its a chance a lot of white mages, and apparently SE for now don't' want to take.

[saevel]

As I've said before, SE needs to make WHM better before giving RDM / SCH Cure V. It's not about the "next tier" its that the difference from IV to V is immense, it's so big a jump that it has everyone demanding it. And while I can see SCH getting it under Apendum White (They get same tier nukes as BLM under AB), I just can't see SE giving RDM Cure V in it's current form.

I can see SE giving RDM alternative curing methods, Regen's come to mind only cause our gear and abilities focus on Enhancing and Enfeebling Magic vs Healing / Elemental Magic. I would much rather a Spell that restores the same HP potential as a Cure V, possibly more with gear factored, but over a 30s period of time. Make it cheap and fast casting, we could cast it on someone then throw out a Cure IV to ensure no premature death. Having experienced the 50+ hp/tick on Embrava, it's ridiculously nice.

[cidbahamut]

White Mage is arguably the most OP job in the game and you want to make it better as a prerequisite to throwing a bone to other jobs? I don't even know how to respond to that.

[Economizer]

Personally, I'm thinking of dropping SCH from the ally for new voidwatch (zilart specifically) to give its spot to another DD.

If you have four Black Mages, a Scholar essentially makes your party have five (actually, a bit more, but I'm rounding down), in addition to having whatever powers the Scholar has, due to weather spells. With the next cap adjustment, this will be less significant, since Black Mages can sub Scholar for all but three weather spells once we hit 99 cap, (while having faster recast timers for Stun over subbing Red Mage, at the cost of some healing ability).

More to everyone, if someone is willing to get rid of a Scholar in an alliance setting for another melee job despite its mixed ability to heal, nuke, and massively buff your casters, what will happen to a job that only heals when other jobs can come extremely close to it or even match it, while being able to do other things? And don't tell me that magic defense will save the day, because at full merits, Shell and Shellra have at best a 3% gap (Phalanx could cover that easily), and the majority of a Barspell can be made up between either an Accessioned Barspell or subbing White Mage for Barspellra.

Siiri, your entire post is pretty coherant and logical, and seems to generally capture the sense of what White Mages are worried about.

The whole argument that White mage has more healing skill is a joke, because currently healing skill matters very little in the cure formula. With the advent of the cure staff with potency +23%, which any serious healer should have, plus all the new cure potency gear that came out in the past year, the cure potency argument is invalid as well. Cure potency caps at 50%, so the fact that white mage could get 60% or whatever and RDM only 50% is fairly pointless as well.

Cureskin is a joke when Scholars have light weather - it comes uncomfortably close, and if Scholars ever get double weather without single weather being sub usable, the gap would be so big that a Scholar with Cure V would be able to laugh in the face of White Mages as they got into parties.

But even if Red Mage were given the same amount, 25-35% cureskin isn't going to make people choose White Mage over Red Mage, like Siiri points out.

The reason white mages and SE apparently think Cure V may imbalance the healing jobs, is white mage was marginalized to a degree at 75. I been playing since 2005 and I remember well things like the airship fight and our white mage being told they weren't allowed to come because only red mage could heal that fight. (The white mage wasn't me, I only had black mage at that time. ) That advanced to my limbus shell saying white mages were never allowed in limbus except for bosses, on to Salvage where it was red mage only as well. Of course experience was the most egregious example of white mage being excluded.

Another example of no matter how hard the content, players will pull this if they can get away with it. This is the cause of many of the problems we have.

SE attempted to rectify this with the solace and misery adjustments, but even at 75 white mage was a second class healer in some people's opinion. So just dumping Cure V on red mage and scholar, who bring mp longetivity and high tier nukes compared to a white mage, may make the balance skew away from the job whose only purpose is to heal. Will the cureskin update, the advanced bar spells, the curagas, etc make it so white mage is still the preferred healer if scholar and red mage get Cure V. I am not sure, maybe, but right now its a chance a lot of white mages, and apparently SE for now don't' want to take.

I've been straight up told on more then one occasion that if Red Mage gets Cure V, Red Mages would be the preferred healers.

Maybe Red Mage desperately needs more healing power, but putting White Mage into a worse position then Red Mage is right now to do it is not the solution. That this will happen is a very big risk, and no plan to date that I've seen for it has really shown me solid numbers while coming from someone who is actually informed about healing. I'm not convinced that bigger enmity generation for other jobs will mean much, I haven't seen a plan to make Cure VI be not terrible enough to make up for it, and I've heard completely bad ideas in general, like "not taking the VIT modifier into account for other jobs!" When you deal with people that think that VIT makes a huge difference on a good Cure V build, it becomes harder to respect their position, even when it might be very logical.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Cureskin isn't the only thing going for Whm making it the only worthwhile healer to bring anywhere on not fodder content. It just adds to it.

Anyone who still thinks Cure V is all that separates Whm from Rdm in healing potential needs to step out of 2006.

@Above with Rapture yes Sch will outcure but otherwise ignoring cureskin is pretty what. That is an additional 400 hp on top of the cured amount, even with aurastorm + Twilight cape Sch still can't match that.

[Ophannus]

SE wants to give SCH more regen potential as they get regen enhancing gear and the spells earlier than any job. Saying WHM should be the only class with Cure5/6 and that any other class getting it would reduce WHM's spot as top healer is like saying giving weapon skills past level 48 to other melee reduces WAR's spot as top damage dealer. Why can we have 8-10 damage dealers, 2-3 tank jobs 2-3 magic damage nukers but only 1 healer?

Why doesn't WHM have to compete with other jobs for a spot like WAR DRK RNG DRG SAM MNK THF BST NIN PUP have at a DD slot?

"Because WHm was designed only to heal" -- If that was the case lets strip them of all their enhancing spells and enfeebling spells because RDM is obviously better at that than WHM yet WHM enhances way better and has gear/merits to enhanes their regens/bars and they have every white magic enfeeble we do except merits. That's like giving SCH PLD RDM Cure V and all Curagas and Cure Skin but making Cure VI WHM merit only.

[Neisan_Quetz]

The damage without Auspice/Misery Bonus still sucks but SE still fixed Holy's range and gave them Holy II, and is working on higher tier Banishes.

Whm is a better enhancer (in terms of actually being able to, you know, give buffs to the pt) than Rdm bar Phalanx II as well... and has higher base combat skill + Doesn't need Empyrean to access it (Not that emps are hard, But having your best WS untethered to 1 weapon unless said weapon enhances said WS is a boon. 95 Relic is better than any other weapon for pure damage for them anyway). The only thing they're missing is damaging nukes.

[Hyrist]

Anyone who still thinks Cure V is all that separates Whm from Rdm in healing potential needs to step out of 2006.
.

You're ignoring the point.

Let me bold it for you.

It is not about the high end of the curing ability so much as the low end of the curing requirement. Player will go with the bottom of the barrel cure if they can afford to get away with it, and WHM lacks the other utilities to make it a compedetive pick against RDM and SCH unless RDM and SCH are more or less incapable of filling the role.

The Playerbase WILL force all support roles onto one job if they feel they can get away with it. (Back to RDM+BRD days.) Instead of distributing their functions into a more varied set-up.

If RDM or SCH is capable of taking the healing load, goodbye WHM. It dosen't matter if the WHM is a better healer or not, another mage just just has to be passable to bump WHM off. It currently does not have enough of a draw into other functions to make it a contender outside "Omg this mob's tough we need a whm!"

[Shiyo]

White Mage is arguably the most OP job in the game and you want to make it better as a prerequisite to throwing a bone to other jobs? I don't even know how to respond to that.

He has literally no idea what he's talking about, it's pretty funny.