Cure V

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'm counting roughly -68% Cast Time on cures from Sch, -80% for Whm (49% Cure Potency and -38 enmity) and ~-76% (LA 50% Cure potency -50 Enmity) for Rdm, can anyone point out anything I've missed?

On Topic: While it's pretty clear SE wants a main healing job it's pretty ridiculous when no one else is even in the league behind the main healer. For serious events it isn't a case of 'Whm not on, get someone else who can help cure' it's 'Whm not on, someone switch to Whm' (or be like someone else here, and be gimp at curing/damage/benefiting your group outside of procs/2 hour).

I got RDM 79% without /SCH

[Neisan_Quetz]

Oh wow, I forgot staff when I'm making one lol, so all 3 jobs near cap on -cast time then.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It just needs to look valid enough for them to edit from what I can tell, they seem to just look at the report and look for key words then dole out adjustments.

i.e post calls someone a retard/idiot, someone reports it for personal attack/unnecessary insulting language, post gets moderated.

[saevel]

Hmm ok. Guess we gotta tip toe around words then. Don't want to piss the mods off as their just doing their jobs, but also don't want to feel like I gotta play with kiddy gloves.

Oh well still gotta love the Ignore feature. It's like instant troll-be-gone.

[Swords]

On Topic: While it's pretty clear SE wants a main healing job it's pretty ridiculous when no one else is even in the league behind the main healer. For serious events it isn't a case of 'Whm not on, get someone else who can help cure' it's 'Whm not on, someone switch to Whm' (or be like someone else here, and be gimp at curing/damage/benefiting your group outside of procs/2 hour).

I don't know, give BLU a /WHM or /RDM (excluded /SCH because Cure IV is 55) it can become a pretty competitive healer coupled with it's own BLU based healing/-na spells.

Because sacrifice is a exclusive WHM spell, common sense would tell you they won't give exclusive spells to other jobs that easily, especially something as good as sacrafice.

Ironic you say that, SE seemed more than happy to whore out anything the least bit exclusive RDM had to the other jobs over the years, most everything significant that was kept was fleshed out to other jobs when the level cap rose.

Sorry if I sound a bit jaded, I haven't had my caffeine this morning.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Competitive... where exactly? None of their native buffs can be fulltimed on a party so that leaves /whm buffs, Their Fast Cast is still gimped and they can't access Totm staves so they're probably the slowest healer in the lot. Their main benefit is having a Cure 4 variant and a 4.5 variant along with better than /whm worse than whm main AoE heals.

And if that's the game's current next best healer then yes that's some pretty bad straits.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Even at 75 cap whm could cap the then cast time cap, and after getting solace + /Sch whm was still the best healer in the game, it just wasn't seen as a large margin as it is now (Did I mention they still had the best barspells/Shell in the game and still do? And it's just gotten even better for them with the cap raises). This isn't 2006 anymore, brute force main healing isn't effective on harder fights, and anyone who thinks a mage job with native skill and spells for said skill should be stuck with the same tier spell for 47 levels... I just don't know what to tell you.

[Kimble]

Doesnt RDM has almost has many "unique" procs as sch? Sch has Helix (8 procs) and RDM has Merit spells ( Bilnd II, Bio III, Dia III, Para II, Slow II)

Personally, I'm thinking of dropping SCH from the ally for new voidwatch (zilart specifically) to give its spot to another DD.

[Economizer]

Personally, I'm thinking of dropping SCH from the ally for new voidwatch (zilart specifically) to give its spot to another DD.

If you have four Black Mages, a Scholar essentially makes your party have five (actually, a bit more, but I'm rounding down), in addition to having whatever powers the Scholar has, due to weather spells. With the next cap adjustment, this will be less significant, since Black Mages can sub Scholar for all but three weather spells once we hit 99 cap, (while having faster recast timers for Stun over subbing Red Mage, at the cost of some healing ability).

More to everyone, if someone is willing to get rid of a Scholar in an alliance setting for another melee job despite its mixed ability to heal, nuke, and massively buff your casters, what will happen to a job that only heals when other jobs can come extremely close to it or even match it, while being able to do other things? And don't tell me that magic defense will save the day, because at full merits, Shell and Shellra have at best a 3% gap (Phalanx could cover that easily), and the majority of a Barspell can be made up between either an Accessioned Barspell or subbing White Mage for Barspellra.

Siiri, your entire post is pretty coherant and logical, and seems to generally capture the sense of what White Mages are worried about.

The whole argument that White mage has more healing skill is a joke, because currently healing skill matters very little in the cure formula. With the advent of the cure staff with potency +23%, which any serious healer should have, plus all the new cure potency gear that came out in the past year, the cure potency argument is invalid as well. Cure potency caps at 50%, so the fact that white mage could get 60% or whatever and RDM only 50% is fairly pointless as well.

Cureskin is a joke when Scholars have light weather - it comes uncomfortably close, and if Scholars ever get double weather without single weather being sub usable, the gap would be so big that a Scholar with Cure V would be able to laugh in the face of White Mages as they got into parties.

But even if Red Mage were given the same amount, 25-35% cureskin isn't going to make people choose White Mage over Red Mage, like Siiri points out.

The reason white mages and SE apparently think Cure V may imbalance the healing jobs, is white mage was marginalized to a degree at 75. I been playing since 2005 and I remember well things like the airship fight and our white mage being told they weren't allowed to come because only red mage could heal that fight. (The white mage wasn't me, I only had black mage at that time. ) That advanced to my limbus shell saying white mages were never allowed in limbus except for bosses, on to Salvage where it was red mage only as well. Of course experience was the most egregious example of white mage being excluded.

Another example of no matter how hard the content, players will pull this if they can get away with it. This is the cause of many of the problems we have.

SE attempted to rectify this with the solace and misery adjustments, but even at 75 white mage was a second class healer in some people's opinion. So just dumping Cure V on red mage and scholar, who bring mp longetivity and high tier nukes compared to a white mage, may make the balance skew away from the job whose only purpose is to heal. Will the cureskin update, the advanced bar spells, the curagas, etc make it so white mage is still the preferred healer if scholar and red mage get Cure V. I am not sure, maybe, but right now its a chance a lot of white mages, and apparently SE for now don't' want to take.

I've been straight up told on more then one occasion that if Red Mage gets Cure V, Red Mages would be the preferred healers.

Maybe Red Mage desperately needs more healing power, but putting White Mage into a worse position then Red Mage is right now to do it is not the solution. That this will happen is a very big risk, and no plan to date that I've seen for it has really shown me solid numbers while coming from someone who is actually informed about healing. I'm not convinced that bigger enmity generation for other jobs will mean much, I haven't seen a plan to make Cure VI be not terrible enough to make up for it, and I've heard completely bad ideas in general, like "not taking the VIT modifier into account for other jobs!" When you deal with people that think that VIT makes a huge difference on a good Cure V build, it becomes harder to respect their position, even when it might be very logical.

[Shiyo]

Personally, I'm thinking of dropping SCH from the ally for new voidwatch (zilart specifically) to give its spot to another DD.

Should probably not invite SCH's who are horrible at FFXI.