Cure V

[Neisan_Quetz]

As long as SE continues to deliver the words 'it would make the game too easy' to prevent damage from TP moves and addle not stacking with pining because monsters cannot attack while casting spells... I refuse to believe their enfeebling buff will be anywhere close to enough.

Even with Cure V Rdm is still not best suited for healing. Whm still is.

[Swords]

As long as SE continues to deliver the words 'it would make the game too easy' to prevent damage from TP moves and addle stacking not stacking with pining because monsters cannot attack while casting spells... I refuse to believe their enfeebling buff will be anywhere close to enough.

Even with Cure V Rdm is still not best suited for healing. Whm still is.

Like I mentioned before though, part of the reason enfeebles are ineffective besides immunities/flat resistances and quirky mechanics, is due to the game not being challenging enough as a whole to support our strength. Most everything in the game is zergable now (even w/o 2hrs) which is counter-effective to our ability to support the group, because essentially the longer our enfeebles last on a mob the more effective and valuable they became over time, which just does not happen when a mob dies in under 2 minutes.

So I'll give you that point. I don't really think the enfeeblement readjustment will be anything spectacular either, and if it is it will probably be rendered ineffective due to the games current challenge level. I won't hold my breath about it, but I will save that SE has surprised players with something good on occasion so who knows.

I'm not totally "against" getting Cure V persay, but until the game has more challenging non-zergable aspects, major RDM flaws are fixed, and those fixes have a time to actually develop and grow within the game community where they show significance to be desired, I strongly feel preemptively slapping Cure V on will deter RDM back into the WHM-2 position. I'm not saying this just because of some pre-mediated fear of the pink bird parties coming back again, I'm also saying it because trends do not die so easily as people make it out to be, and it's hard to break away from a pre-established position the community puts you in. If RDM is considered WHM-2 before the fixes, people will still view it as WHM-2 with some improvements that may or may not be lined up for what the community wants it for. If RDM doesn't have a predefined role after the fixes, it still doesn't have a role therefore can develop into something on it's own, different aspects of the job can be looked at (less objectively) and it will actually be able to grow and find it's own niche within the gaming community.

It can be good or bad, and we may still end up in that position for all we know, but I would rather we were given a chance to be ourselves and develop our own path first.

[Greatguardian]

yah, i get that. but my point was... aren't you kinda doing the same thing? just in the opposite order?

or now i guess you're just throwing out the jack-of-all-trades card to make a point, and don't actually subscribe to the idea.

The latter. Jack-of-all-Trades is a concept constantly thrown around by the melee camp, not anyone else. Thus, it is ironic that the same people who sit around and yell "But Red Mage is a jack of all trades, thus it should be good at melee!" can also say "Red Mage is a jack of all trades, but it shouldn't be good at healing!".

Screw "Jack of all Trades". Update Red Mage's spell library, remove NM immunities (even if they still have high Magic Eva afterwards, that's fine), and let it succeed in the Support Mage niche that it has carved for itself.

inb4 "Support" = "Spam haste/refresh/cures and do nothing else" because people are retarded and don't know how to play Red Mage any way aside from the extremes of Pink and Melee, both of which are terrible.

[CapriciousOne]

While I support you in theory, one of the previous posters has already demonstrated that a RDM with Cure V wouldn't be very far behind WHM in cure power. Blame it on SE's rotten scaling of Healing Magic Skill as it effects Cures. In real use people would just see "Cure V" and immediately throw the RDM into a main healing spot. They've been doing that since 2004, it's not gonna change all of a sudden. Doing this would immediately end any and all enhancements SE would do to RDM. Cause no matter what, for all eternity people would just see RDM has a healer -1. Not the best but "good enough", and that's all people care about. Heck I've seen many alliances try to main heal with RDM's right now, doesn't work very well, and you get one tired RDM, but they thing Cure = main healer.

I don't mind supporting a WHM and taking on part of the healing load, and Cure V would make that tons easier. But I would get to "support" for about two weeks until people noticed that you can just do WHM + RDM/WHM x 2 in an 18 main alliance instead of WHM x 3. Of course the WHM would take care of the two tanks, but the RDM's would be forced to babysit the melee's or if he's lucky the BLMs.

Well again as far as the player base attitude goes, when will more of you RDM just give them the finger and not accept the role they keep placing upon you if you arent satisfied with fulfilling it? I mean grow some fucking balls already. I mean for a single job that basically can substitue for any and every job there is why arent we uniting against this bull shit? RDM will not as good as the specialists can still be sufficient enough to get shit done. RDM is essentially a nuker, healer, damage dealer, enfeebler, and tank even if it is to a lesser degree of the specialist. Essentially we are an entire party on our own so to me it is only logical to put 6, 12, or even 18 RDM together and say the hell with everybody else and let them fend for theirselves WITHOUT US. I see it as they need us more than we need them so SCREW THEM ALL !!! LMFAO let them all die without us.

[saevel]

Well again as far as the player base attitude goes, when will more of you RDM just give them the finger and not accept the role they keep placing upon you if you arent satisfied with fulfilling it? I mean grow some fucking balls already. I mean for a single job that basically can substitue for any and every job there is why arent we uniting against this bull shit? RDM will not as good as the specialists can still be sufficient enough to get shit done. RDM is essentially a nuker, healer, damage dealer, enfeebler, and tank even if it is to a lesser degree of the specialist. Essentially we are an entire party on our own so to me it is only logical to put 6, 12, or even 18 RDM together and say the hell with everybody else and let them fend for theirselves WITHOUT US. I see it as they need us more than we need them so SCREW THEM ALL !!! LMFAO let them all die without us.

I already do that, or well my LS has me come RDM/NIN or RDM/DRK pretty much all the time now. I'm not concerned about my placement or play style, this is for the up and coming RDM's or those who what to try this style of play. Giving RDM Cure V would actually make my job easier as my /ma "Cure IV" <stal> macro would be much more efficient.

That being said, the vast majority of players still think of RDM as a "healer -1" to be used when a WHM isn't around. And the only way to break them of this mentality is to show case RDM's other assets and skillsets, which requires a fundamental shift in how people think. Just tossing Cure V will further enforce the idea of RDM being a WHM-1. It's why I would much rather us have some other form of healing via Enhancing Magic, likely through a Regen type spell.

[Greatguardian]

Absolutely nothing that the Devs do is ever going to make retarded players less retarded.

Neither sword buffs, nor healing buffs, nor enfeebling buffs, nor buffs of any other kind will stop retarded players from being unable to look beyond Cure spells.

If you have a problem with this preconception affecting the way you play in your group, stop playing with retards. If you're worried about the integrity of the community and the fate of the people who are stuck playing with retards, then buckle up because they're not going to change any time soon no matter what anyone does.

[Xianra]

My first job to 75 was RDM, when I started playing back in 2004. Right now my RDM is in semi-retirement, and will stay that way until some significant updates are added.

I can hardly stand the job as it is now. I'll stack up a much MND as possible through gear and atmas, use Saboteur and Elemental Seal (when /blm, to ensure a successful cast), and the resulting enfeebling spell has a barely noticeable effect. Enfeebling is supposed to be our standout ability, but it's too weak. Our magic is simply just too ineffective on things that matter. It only takes a minute or two to apply enfeebling effects to an enemy and enhancing spells to my party, and then I work on providing support through heals while reapplying effects as needed. This is beyond frustrating when many moves strip through a tank's defenses and my Cure IV-III are not nearly enough. My nukes are still a significant step behind BLM, SCH, PUP and BLU (well at least I beat DRK?). I feel as if I could be replaced by an assortment of other jobs that would be more beneficial to the party.

The previous draw with RDM as a main healer in the 75 era was more for MP conservation through Refresh/Convert than anything else. Now WHM has access to several options for MP conservation. As HP pools continue to increase, and new content increases in difficulty, the old cures just fall further behind. Enfeebles aren't helping to bridge this gap. I usually choose my BLU for healing purposes now.

As far as melee goes, I only use that when farming or when solo, and even then, usually not at all. I carry around a lot of gear and melee just isn't as high of a priority to me.

I just feel as if overall, all of the things we can do are just a step behind everyone else, and other jobs that can handle things a RDM can do are more proficient at them.

Cure V could be added immediately for feedback on the test server, and does not require a significant amount of development resources. While it doesn't solve the big picture, it's a useful step in the right direction in my opinion.

[Motenten]

Eh, adding Cure V on the test server probably wouldn't help much on the feedback side. There's not many people there, and they usually don't do large-scale testing, which is where this would need to be considered. All it would tell us is what we already know -- how much rdm could cure for.

[saevel]

Eh, adding Cure V on the test server probably wouldn't help much on the feedback side. There's not many people there, and they usually don't do large-scale testing, which is where this would need to be considered. All it would tell us is what we already know -- how much rdm could cure for.

Test server currently off line actually. They only turn it on prior to an update when they want us to beta test stuff. And be thankful, it lets us give the, feedback on idea's before their implemented and have things corrected.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Test server currently off line actually. They only turn it on prior to an update when they want us to beta test stuff. And be thankful, it lets us give the, feedback on idea's before their implemented and have things corrected.

It's been back up for a while.