Cure V

[Hyrist]

Oh, look, another Red Herring.

Saying the same things about Chainspell Stun =/= saying the same things about our views of Cure V. Don't try to correlate the two. I wasn't, and you're jumping points to try to make it seem that I was.

As far as Regen Boost to Scholar, I'll have to see just how powerful those boosts are to see if they are going to offset the lack of Cure V for them.

Issue with "Cure V won't break WHM". Even if I agree with that point, there's still several beneath it, like cure V breaking RDM which is my primary concern. I don't want some cop-out for our job 'being more useful' instead of getting more enfeebles that actually matter.

[Swords]

Neisan I was the one parading the thought of the ToAU parties happening again, but in any case I'd like to ask a simple plausible question.

IF RDM had cure V, the player was a competit healer, was MORE than capable of handling the situation on RDM, but also had WHM leveled which is better in every way to support the group even though it would be utter overkill. Would you ask the player to switch to WHM?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Oh, look, another Red Herring.

Saying the same things about Chainspell Stun =/= saying the same things about our views of Cure V. Don't try to correlate the two. I wasn't, and you're jumping points to try to make it seem that I was.

As far as Regen Boost to Scholar, I'll have to see just how powerful those boosts are to see if they are going to offset the lack of Cure V for them.

Issue with "Cure V won't break WHM". Even if I agree with that point, there's still several beneath it, like cure V breaking RDM which is my primary concern. I don't want some cop-out for our job 'being more useful' instead of getting more enfeebles that actually matter.

How the hell is learning higher tiers in magic without being the best in that field of magic a cop-out?

Neisan I was the one parading the thought of the ToAU parties happening again, but in any case I'd like to ask a simple plausible question.

IF RDM had cure V, the player was a competit healer, was MORE than capable of handling the situation on RDM, but also had WHM leveled which is better in every way to support the group even though it would be utter overkill. Would you ask the player to switch to WHM?

Why is options a bad thing? I'd tell them come on the job they're most comfortable on. That isn't the case right now. For not soloable content it isn't 'You can come support on Rdm or Sch or Whm' with Whm being the clear choice for harder fights, it's 'Oh you have Rdm/Sch leveled? That's nice, come Whm unless you feel like dicking around'.

[cidbahamut]

People who have White Mage and Red Mage leveled get asked to play White Mage.

[Hyrist]

How the hell is learning higher tiers in magic without being the best in that field of magic a cop-out?

You need to actually read what I've been writing, as you're asking questions I've answered many, many times.

My personal fear, just talking about RDM in a vaccume, is that reacing Cure V for RDM will kill the progress that desperately needs to be made for Enfeebeling and Enhancing game, which is quite capable of handeling the problem on its own. For the job, I want to have those enfeebles not be immune, and to be able to greatly reduce their target's effectiveness. I desire that ability far more than being given paltry status reductions and then being given Cure V to make up for it.

1. Giving RDM Cure V would destroy the case argument for better buffs and debuffs. "Why do you need better de/buffs? You have Cure V. Just heal the damage."

2. It distracts from more job defining aspects both SCH and RDM should be their respective specialists in.

Please try to keep up with the conversation. It's not as if I'm being inconsistent here.

[Hyrist]

Neisan I was the one parading the thought of the ToAU parties happening again, but in any case I'd like to ask a simple plausible question.

IF RDM had cure V, the player was a competit healer, was MORE than capable of handling the situation on RDM, but also had WHM leveled which is better in every way to support the group even though it would be utter overkill. Would you ask the player to switch to WHM?

Actually, that's a good argument for Neisan and Cid's case. Right now? WHM, because RDM's core mechanics are in such a bad state. But I cannot for the life of me shake off the feeling that if the idea of RDM 'MUST HAVE CURE V NOWZ' isn't killed, we're never going to see RDM being made into an actually powerful enfeebler where it matters. It'll forever be good against monsters that don't matter, and there for Refresh II/Haste bot for any event beyond it. And Cure V will just be another 'Lookie here! I have this too, pweese invite mee!' gimick, just like Stun is.

RDM needs to be brought into its own. Its enfeebles need to make a signifi- no critical impact upon the monster for it to be anything but a joke job in HNM game. That requires work on the ones we have, and additional ones to cover the areas we currently don't. Cure V doesn't do this, and it can prevent it from happening, as the developers could easily be too frightened to give RDM both.

[Swords]

Why is options a bad thing? I'd tell them come on the job they're most comfortable on. That isn't the case right now. For not soloable content it isn't 'You can come support on Rdm or Sch or Whm' with Whm being the clear choice for harder fights, it's 'Oh you have Rdm/Sch leveled? That's nice, come Whm unless you feel like dicking around'.

Options are never a bad thing, but say lets do a slight role reversal RDM is the king of single cures now if there was anything that needed RAW curing power RDM was the go to job even though it's cure power is overkill, but WHM still has all of it's other advantages high regens, ga's, cureskin, auspice, etc. Would you still ask the RDM to swap to WHM? (remembering na's/ga's are subbable via /SCH)

[Neisan_Quetz]

Yes, so they can come /thf or /blm and still have -nas and -gas.

Having a field of magic you specialize in does not mean you can't have other fields of magic you can perform sufficiently in. This is not the situation we have right now.

[FrankReynolds]

In fact, the only arguments coming out are at me personally

No, they aren't. I'm sure you are a great guy, and very good at FFXI. I still think your wrong about Cure V though.

So here's the question:Why not debuffs? Why does it have to be specifically, Cure V?

As I mentioned in the post above this one, Cure V does nothing to hinder our Enfeebling role.

Because the only argument I've heard so far for Cure V that wouldn't be addressed by added cure capacity over time, and damage prevention is that Cure IV is available via subjob, which I can understand.

also just above this post I said:

Healing over time sucks because when you are fighting something that requires large amounts of healing, you need to get players topped off as fast as possible. If you have time for HP to regenerate on a per tic basis, you probably don't really need much healing to begin with.

You're free to disagree with whatever concerns I have with Cure V, but with the spell in contention (Not just by members of the player-base but obviously by the developers as well considering they've held out this long) and a clear alternative route that would be better overall, why not take it?

Because your method is convoluted. Adding Red Mage to a spell is easy. Making new spells that replace the need to heal from spike damage is a lot harder and far more likely to overpower the job in general, not just piss off white Mages.

There was so much hassle when Temper came out on how it was a waste of development time/etc. But do we really have a unified idea as to what we're to do with Red Mage? A number of you just seem to want to convert the job into just a healer. Is this your desire or vision for the class or are you just trying to find a solution to the frustration of not being able to top off player's hit points?

Nobody wants to make healing our main function. Cure V wouldn't do that.

[Urteil]

Last time DRK got a stun was 37.