Cure V

[cidbahamut]

The poster is clearly just after being rude and stroking his ego, I wouldn't bother.

It's saevel, that's all he ever does.

[CapriciousOne]

Arguing in circles again.

I've already explained this before: You should invite your Hybrids to accompany your lower tier healers, and leave WHM as the undisputed king of burst healing.

If anything, hybrid jobs need a boost in this situation to make it work easier to this standard, rather than telling SCH and RDM they should be WHMs.

1. Healing is the least desired of an MMO role. So forcing that function on a singular job within a party, instead of distributing the role among multiple jobs that also serve other purposes goes against this dichotomy instead of working with it.

Again, SCH and RDM should have their own healing over time functions to compliment their damage prevention measures, but nothing more than that, as they already do have powerful damage prevention functions. (though again, RDM needs better spells to regard TP attacks.)

2. This wouldn't even be an augment if we had a spell that reduced the severity of TP attacks on the monster, we wouldn't need the burst healing you're asking for so loudly.


3. As far as poor game design, Cid. The poor game design was putting 20 jobs with the vast majority of them Damage Dealers with little other functionality. Placing your same bread and butter Healers in the game creates a very difficult job dynamic, instead of encouraging hybrid roles to accompanying more jobs.

And the more powerful you make the current jobs capable of healing, the harder that dynamic gets. You won't pick a Blue Mage over a Monk unless the monk cant' provide something you need, that a Blue Mage has. Same for every other Hybrid vs top tier damage dealer.

SE really pinned themselves hard in this situation because they're screwed either way. If they give Scholar and Red Mage the healing capacity people are asking for, the way they're asking for it, it will cause the same issues as it did in ToAU, hands down. And still, Hybrids and WHMs will lose out.

4. But if the player-base, stubborn as mules, will never invite 2 jobs to cover 3 roles if the split role is healing. Which really sucks for players who like playing hybrids.

5. I get the arguments for having more diversified healing base. But that sort of competition is unhealthy for the kind of jobs we have in this game. Instead we need to be upping the damage prevention utilities of more jobs, particularly RDM and SCH, to compensate.

For 'lighter duty' you shouldn't be needing cure V, and if we're to that point where we do, then for RDM specifically, it's our debuff and enhancing that needs a stronger looking at, NOT our Cure tier.

TL;DR?

Damage Prevention >>>>> Damage Recovery. We don't need stronger healers. We need stronger buffs and debuffs.

1. I couldn't agree more as this alone is the main reason I dont ask for and deny any and all party invites because I feel RDM has no business main healing no matter how good it is at doing it personally. Plus that bs is just boring and lazy for all of RDM talents. I just feel RDM has more to contribute than being a nurse especially since not only does whm have the same spells they cover multiple people for the same mp with the curaga spells. Yea i know all the complaints about WHM doing that but whatever I'm just saying.

2. TP reduction debuffs for RDM would be sweet and welcomed for events I imagine though I never do any but still would also help with NM that do crazy TP damage moves that are AoE as well. I still disagree with you however that burst cures like cure V wouldnt be needed especially solo which is the main reason i'm asking for it. I tend to play with fire i suppose and allow my hp to be orange or red depending on the strength of the mob so being able to get back up to almost full health would be welcomed. I'm just a glutton for pain I suppose and like the adrenaline of almost dying.

3. As long as I dont have to main heal I'll accompany just about any job combination anywhere. I always try to adjust to change circumstances instead of the whole cookie cutter bs the player base refuses to alter. The strongest players in any game are always flexible and able to adjust in my opinion.

4. Again I couldnt put it better myself. This is the heart of all the problems in this game, THE PLAYERS not the developers. Our inability to consider anything other then the old and worn out is beyond annoying to me. Which is why I exclusively solo now because I dont have to put up with bs arguments over why I chose this piece or armor or cast this spell or god knows whatever other bs somebody finds to whine about. This is a game and it is meant to played in a myriad of ways that satisfies our gameplay experience. Just because I like to do something a certain way that another person doesnt have the patience or guts to manage doesnt make it wrong just different.

5. Well I still want Cure V but I totally agree our enfeebles could stand to be stronger and proc more. I mean the baseline effects before gear mods and stat boost could be increased. One thing I personally would like is if Group 1 and 2 merits across the board was increased from 10 to 20 for all jobs. Actually 30 would be best but I dont expect miracles from SE about that but still I would enjoy it. I'm especially keen on using Tier 2 Phalanx/blind/paralyze and Tier 3 Bio and Dia so being able to max out all would be sweet but again wishful thinking.

I suppose we do tend to overlook our debuffs in the cry for Cure V but I still think it is type for a new Cure. I mean it has been over 42 levels and no new cure? I've seen some Gov where the pages call for mobs that are like level 100+ to be killed, trust me Cure V is and will be needed like it or not and your going to want more than just WHM to have it. Plus with Curaga IV and Curaga V, WHM can still shine bright. I always thought it would be cool to low man a WHM, a BLM, and a RDM and take on multiple mobs at once but since RDM has no AoE enfeebles this would suck but I digress.

Overall I think there needs to be more diversity in job choices for parties instead of the cookie cutter we have been dependent. Yea yea I know it works but so does other combinations if one knows how to mitigate weakness. To me this is the reason support jobs exist to mitigate those weakenss depending on your ultimate goal. Still this is a USER problem and unless those users for the diversity give those against it the proverbial finger and band together this probelm will always remain.

[Motenten]

Addendum to my previous bit of math (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post208029), since I forgot to account for MP efficiency.

Cure amounts with 50% Cure potency:
Cure 1: 60 / 8 = 7.5
Cure 2: 192 / 24 = 8.0
Cure 3: 339 / 46 = 7.37
Cure 4: 697 / 88 = 7.92
Cure 5: 1077 / 135 = 7.98


And with AF3+2 pants:
Cure 1: 60 / (8-3) = 12.0
Cure 2: 192 / (24-9) = 12.8
Cure 3: 339 / (46-16) = 11.3
Cure 4: 697 / (88-34) = 12.91
Cure 5: 1077 / (135-53) = 13.13

As we can see, since MP costs were determined based on previous healing potential, changes to the cure cap and scaling on Cure II and IV cause them to be boosted up in efficiency compared to Cure III. To keep things in line efficiency-wise, Cure III would probably need its cost dropped to 43 MP.

[Economizer]

Addendum to my previous bit of math

If you are modifying your math based on the AF3 pants, also consider the Light Arts cost reduction. No good White Mage goes without it.

[Neisan_Quetz]

He'll also probably have to add his math over on Allah on /rdm versus /sch, and I can't remember the link right now.

[Motenten]

I didn't include Light Arts because that's just a percentage reduction in cost -- it affects all spells' efficiency equally. Whm AF3 pants, on the other hand, reduce cost proportional to the amount cured. Since this involves changes in how much is cured by each spell, the pants need to be taken into consideration in the comparison.

Since this is just a suggestion, not an actual game change, I won't be making any modifications to my subjob comparison spreadsheet.

[Lynxis]

As many people are suggesting, I'd like to see a cure 4.5 type spell for RDM/SCH/PLD. Hard cap it at ~550, which means with full potency gear, it can cure ~825 per spell and give it high enmity generation like Cure 4. That means a fully loaded RDM or SCH can cure for around 1400 in a single cure round, enough to almost fully heal a single DD. It won't overtake WHM by any means but would allow RDM and SCH sufficient for back up cures on difficult content, main cures on easier content and give PLD another (badly needed) enmity generation tool.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Pld doesn't need more enmity tools it's been beaten to death over on their own forums. Cure IV's enmity generation is bad enough, pre modifiers it has about as much VE as a voke iirc, or a little under that. Tranquil Heart helps but doesn't fix that alone.

[Mageoholic]

The easiest solution is to slap C5 on all jobs with native cures (RDM/WHM/SCH/PLD) I think I would like to see the % values tweaked somewhat for all healing spells excluding C5 (but including C6).

Something that pushes the value of a C4 to about 600 base HP (before Cure Potency). This would mean near 1K heals for all jobs with C4. This is near the potency of C5 however the enmity gained by using this heal is also much higher. Thus you now have a trade off, a very MP efficient heal that pulls a lot of hate.

For the WHM's they would also be presented another option for cure bombing, a highly mp efficient heal, that in exchange pulls a lot of hate.

IMO this would be the best way to tweak balance issues in healing, while keeping the WHM crowd who thinks they will lose their spots if anyone else gets C5 content.

[Shadowsong]

Hey, stop trolling this is a serious thread i want RDM to get cure V. Also RDM will probably get Stone/WaterV by the time we're 99.

You disagree with him, and you're a troll?
I disagree with your assumption that RDM require Cure V.
And please post your views in one of the literally 900 other RDM whining threads instead of spamming the forum main page with outdated, beat to death topics.

ITT: Search functions are hard