Ideas for Paladin Modification

[Greatguardian]

Well, the average turtle PLD was always obsolete and incapable of tanking at all. That's a given. DDs may hit hate cap in 15-30 seconds these days, but that does not mean they were unable to easily hit it in 60-90 seconds pre-Abyssea.

You're absolutely right when you say all jobs are/were capable of crossing the line. Heck, in some cases (SAM, MNK, DRK, sometimes NIN), "DD" jobs were better tanks than PLDs were long before Abyssea came out. Really, the only reason a lot of good players were unable to tank regularly on those jobs were misconceptions by their group, especially bad/mediocre White Mages who had a tendency to only focus on curing "Tank" jobs while everyone else could just die and it would be "their own fault" (this makes me rage so hard).

When it really comes down to it, Paladin has never really taken much less damage than any other job with equivalent defensive gear. Most every melee job can cap PDT and MDT in sets if they so choose, it's simply a matter of getting a competent player who actually has those sets. Shield has always been a bit of a crapshoot, and other jobs can most definitely match Pld's Enmity gain and damage reduction in other ways (Seigan, Stuns, Counters, etc).

I suppose what I'm saying is, in an environment with higher end players who were able to deal lots of damage on their DDs and had proper gear sets, Paladin has been obsolete for a very very long time. It just seems a bit more widespread now because, in Abyssea, even full Aurore trash can deal respectable damage with Atmas and Cruor buffs while rocking 3,500 HP, while even full teal Whms have infinite MP.

The problem has become more visible to social/casual players, but most higher-end endgamers have been seeing this for years now.

[Raka]

Here is an idea I had as one way to help out Paladin. Still working out the bugs, but feel free to post your thoughts on it.


Name: Endurance
Type: Job Ability
Recast: 5:00
Duration: 3:00
Target: Self

Description: Negates enmity loss, gradually lowers allies enmity with each successive shield block.

Notes:

- Will only decay party/alliance members enmity on the current target the Paladin is fighting.
- Will negate enmity loss from all forms of damage.

[Dale]

All these ideas of "higher enmity cap for Paladin", "improve cover", "flash 2", etc are driving me nuts. The problem with Paladin isn't that it needs to be made a better tank per se; it's that it needs to be made more versatile and bring more to a group than being a sponge. Paladin isn't worthless cause it can't provoke more. Paladin isn't useless cause it needs to cover more people. Paladin is useless because a wide array of jobs can sponge now and those jobs also contribute to the party. I'll post my entire list of suggestions and issues I believe plague PLD once I get home. In the meantime, I'd recommend reading my suggestions on page 1 if you haven't.

First off, paladins are not useless. They provide a powerful blend of high defense and cure power no other job can, and can even play a powerful support role with the right sub job and equipment. If players fail to utilize all of their strengths that isn't the fault of the paladin.

I'm tired of other paladins complaining that so many other jobs can tank. They are MELEE classes, they are MEANT TO TANK. Warriors, monks, even dragoons...ninjas - these jobs are suppose to melee. Melee jobs TANK. The fact they do more damage than paladins is the way it should be. Paladins have greater defense so they should have lesser offense than some of the other tanks. So what if other tanks can kill faster. Too many people are making a big fuss out of nothing. It would be utterly stupid if paladins were the only viable tanks in the game and people had to recruit one else they could not kill anything.

[Zagen]

First off, paladins are not useless. They provide a powerful blend of high defense and cure power no other job can, and can even play a powerful support role with the right sub job and equipment. If players fail to utilize all of their strengths that isn't the fault of the paladin.

None of this is needed in a tank outside of Voidwatch currently.

Edit: BTW a BLU provides higher DEF and Cure power than PLD. As well as much more damage.

[Dale]

None of this is needed in a tank outside of Voidwatch currently.

Edit: BTW a BLU provides higher DEF and Cure power than PLD. As well as much more damage.

I disagree blue mage provides a higher DEf than paladin. They may have better heals, but when you take into account the paladin's shield, i think they significantly trump Blue Mage on physical defense.

[Greatguardian]

I disagree blue mage provides a higher DEf than paladin. They may have better heals, but when you take into account the paladin's shield, i think they significantly trump Blue Mage on physical defense.

BLU has a higher Defense stat, which everyone knows is useless as hell and that was his point. PLD's "Defense" is utter crap. PLD's Shield? Less crappy crap, but still crap.

Inb4: "It's not crappy just because 5-10+ jobs can do it better, because I can do it at a standard which I believe to be acceptable and contentious"

[Dale]

BLU has a higher Defense stat, which everyone knows is useless as hell and that was his point. PLD's "Defense" is utter crap. PLD's Shield? Less crappy crap, but still crap.

Inb4: "It's not crappy just because 5-10+ jobs can do it better, because I can do it at a standard which I believe to be acceptable and contentious"

lol...well it doesn't surprise me you are now saying defense sucks as well. Everything (but you i'm sure) sucks according to you

It doesn't matter that Blue has a higher defense stat - though that's debatable as a pld can sub blue and use cocoon as well. When you take into account the Paladin's ability to frequently block damage with his shield his physical defense trumps that of a blue mage. I never limited my comments to just the pure defense stat and nothing else. There is a lot more to defense than just the raw stat and all sorts of factors that contribute to how well a character can withstand damage.

That being said I disagree with you that defense is usless as hell. So if that was his point i disagree with him on that as well. I find a high defense to make a huge difference, and even on occasion sub blue to my red mage for the added survival. So in no way is it "useless as hell". Just another example of your silly need to call everything sucky and useless.

[Zagen]

lol...well it doesn't surprise me you are now saying defense sucks as well. Everything (but you i'm sure) sucks according to you

It doesn't matter that Blue has a higher defense stat - though that's debatable as a pld can sub blue and use cocoon as well. When you take into account the Paladin's ability to frequently block damage with his shield his physical defense trumps that of a blue mage. I never limited my comments to just the pure defense stat and nothing else. There is a lot more to defense than just the raw stat and all sorts of factors that contribute to how well a character can withstand damage.

That being said I disagree with you that defense is usless as hell. So if that was his point i disagree with him on that as well. I find a high defense to make a huge difference, and even on occasion sub blue to my red mage for the added survival. So in no way is it "useless as hell". Just another example of your silly need to call everything sucky and useless.

MNKs who roll Counterstance full time with a whooping 60-100ish DEF would like to have a word with you...

[Dale]

MNKs who roll Counterstance full time with a whooping 60-100ish DEF would like to have a word with you...

Hm...ok so i'm to take from this comment that because monks have counterstance that somehow means defense sucks?

I"m finding your posts and reasons as to why everything sucks more and more difficult to follow I have to admit.

[Zagen]

Hm...ok so i'm to take from this comment that because monks have counterstance that somehow means defense sucks?

I"m finding your posts and reasons as to why everything sucks more and more difficult to follow I have to admit.

Counterstance drops a MNK's DEF to VIT/2 +1. In other words they are turning they're DEF into crap compared to PLD's DEF. That said the increase to Counter rate far out weighs the drastic loss of DEF because again DEF is useless when it comes to mitigating damage.