Ideas for Paladin Modification

[Dale]

A lot of people talk about changing Enmity and other such things, but I had a long discussion on another board about this and a few things I will be listed seem to make the most sense, while not giving too much of a heavy change to the game (Unless I note so otherwise.)

Note - This is about changing existing traits/abilities, etc not adding new ones (for the most part)

1) Change Job Ability - "Cover" Into a Job Trait. (and Add Cover II or even Cover III as well)

= If the paladin stands infront of a party member who has main hate (most hate), they will cover that party member.

Each increase in the trait (II and III) will increase the chance of a paladin blocking with a shield while covering.

2) Change Job Trait - "Defense Bonus" to "Damage Reduction"

= A increase and defense does not seem to make much change as the levels go higher in a sense of reducing damage, however turning the traits into Damage Reduction, lets say. "Damage Reduction I - V" Gives a 5% gain each time for lets say lv 99 with 25% dmg reduction. This would allow paladin to take more hits and increase it's use without making other jobs less useful or over powering pld as a DD.

3) Updating Job Trait "Shield Mastery"

= A job that is the main user for shields should have a bit more of a boost to using a shield, in contrast to wanting to dual wield as a /nin or /dnc

For example, lets say it should increase the damage rate when using Shield Bash (which would make it a bit more useful overall) so there is currently 3 Shield Mastery traits, so lets do the dmg increase by 25% with each trait, so lets say Shield bash does 30 dmg at lv 90 + 4 traits = +75% so +22 dmg making it do 55 dmg with shield bash

Or if not a damage increase, than with each trait, the stun effect last longer?


NOW, we go on to minor adds to the job.

1) Add Job Trait - "Counter" (Or something similiar)

= I know this thing is big for Monk, but hear me out. A paladin is a Shield and sword combo class. So we can give it a Counter like trait, where if you successfully block with a shield you have a 5-10% chance of countering with your weapon (Sword in this case) But the trait can only work if you have a shield.

2) A job trait or ability (Preferable a Trait) that allows more damage when using a Sword.

= My logic on this is that Paladin is a A+ using a Sword, while like Red Mage and Blue Mage are lower than that (even if slightly so). They should be more potent when using it, So what about something like

"When using a Sword and Shield, increase damage to the main hand weapon. (Similiar to how Fencer increases damage if a Warrior using a one handed weapon, but it has to be a Shield and Sword combo for paladin)


These are all my suggestions and fixes for job. What you guys think?

Turning cover into a job trait that is always active sounds way too powerful to me, so I woudn't support that. If they would make any changes to cover, i'd like to see it to where it automatically leaps in front of the person you cover like on all the other FF games. That would be nice - as trying to position yourself with that move can be a huge pain in the butt.

I like your change our defense traits into damage reduction traits though. Similiar to the change they did with Sentinel a long time ago, so that suggestion I would support.

I think our shield mastery is fine as is.

Giving Paladins a "counter" ability seems kind of weird to me. I'm not opposed to the idea of adding some kind of retaliation move - but that's a monk thing really, and I'd liek to see the jobs on this game retain their individualality.

[JagerForrester]

If they could widen the cover area, think it would make it more worth to use? I doubt it since many PLDs got use to standing still. Maybe they should give PLDs a bigger benefit to cover. For example, THFs who Sneak/Trick Attack, increase their effectiveness of Treasure Hunter also with the bonus of making their next attack either a critical or the emnity transferred to the character in front of them.

What if during the ability Cover also increases our Shield blocking and Defense? In my mind, I can see a PLD getting in front of a troubled party member in order to protect them and put up their shield in doing so. I know when I did use Cover (shocker), I didn't do anything to pull hate to myself till Cover wore, as if I put all of my thoughts on defending.

[Judge]

You want to help the job w/o making other jobs suffer too much right?

What if they added a small adjustment to cover?

Cover could also reduce enmity of all party members by 30%(PLD unaffected)Everyone could still perform their job and a 3 minute timer isn't too bad in this case. PLD could tank effectively and those DD's don't have to worry about pulling hate as often. would also offset PLD not having its own voke.. not that voke is worthwhile in hatemongering places like abyssea.

i would also like to see some changes with the curing situation.
Many ppl have said it already but cure4 doesnt cut it AT ALL in abyssea. And outside of abyssea its still only scratches the HP of a PLD. Between the casting time and small amount cured, it can be a hassle to cure yourself or someone else in a hurry.

my Suggestion is this:
(Insert cool name Job Trait)~ PLD Cures only. Instant cast like dancer waltzes. spamming some cures helps control enmity anyway. so being able to do it quickly to "protect" a party member makes sense. and this way no new cures are needed so WHM wont have to worry about its toes being stepped on. with as many ways to recover MP that have been added the MP supply shouldn't even come into play.

[Bilonn]

Cover could also reduce enmity of all party members by 30%(PLD unaffected)

Or even make it a reversed Trick Attack. Anyone under the effect of Cover will receive no enmity from attacks--the Paladin receives it instead. This might make people think of actually staying behind us. Samurai or Blue Mage about to blast a solo skillchain? Have the Paladin cover them, then let loose, and be able to walk off without having picked up any hate.

[JagerForrester]

Or even make it a reversed Trick Attack. Anyone under the effect of Cover will receive no enmity from attacks--the Paladin receives it instead. This might make people think of actually staying behind us. Samurai or Blue Mage about to blast a solo skillchain? Have the Paladin cover them, then let loose, and be able to walk off without having picked up any hate.

Making Cover in that fashion is a little too unbalanced don't you think? The definition of cover doesn't fit covering everyone by standing still.

to place something over or upon, as for protection, concealment, or warmth.

I really think for cover to work is to do what it says. For protection, meaning up our defenses. Like an innate Defender ability latched onto Cover for it's amount of time plus increased shield blocking.

[Tim]

How about leaving paladin the same but giving it a "provoke" ability so that we dont have to sub warrior all the time.

[Gallus]

All these ideas of "higher enmity cap for Paladin", "improve cover", "flash 2", etc are driving me nuts. The problem with Paladin isn't that it needs to be made a better tank per se; it's that it needs to be made more versatile and bring more to a group than being a sponge. Paladin isn't worthless cause it can't provoke more. Paladin isn't useless cause it needs to cover more people. Paladin is useless because a wide array of jobs can sponge now and those jobs also contribute to the party. I'll post my entire list of suggestions and issues I believe plague PLD once I get home. In the meantime, I'd recommend reading my suggestions on page 1 if you haven't.

[Tim]

I was speaking more for survivability and hate control. like a paladin/ninja who has flash and provoke without warrior. that would help a lot. I understand how paladin works and what plagues it. I am fully merrited on enmity and have pretty good gear. My major problem even with atonement is my damage output. when a DD hits for 2000 damage I cannot hold hate long. I am interested to see your list though

[Dale]

All these ideas of "higher enmity cap for Paladin", "improve cover", "flash 2", etc are driving me nuts. The problem with Paladin isn't that it needs to be made a better tank per se; it's that it needs to be made more versatile and bring more to a group than being a sponge. Paladin isn't worthless cause it can't provoke more. Paladin isn't useless cause it needs to cover more people. Paladin is useless because a wide array of jobs can sponge now and those jobs also contribute to the party. I'll post my entire list of suggestions and issues I believe plague PLD once I get home. In the meantime, I'd recommend reading my suggestions on page 1 if you haven't.

First off, paladins are not useless. They provide a powerful blend of high defense and cure power no other job can, and can even play a powerful support role with the right sub job and equipment. If players fail to utilize all of their strengths that isn't the fault of the paladin.

I'm tired of other paladins complaining that so many other jobs can tank. They are MELEE classes, they are MEANT TO TANK. Warriors, monks, even dragoons...ninjas - these jobs are suppose to melee. Melee jobs TANK. The fact they do more damage than paladins is the way it should be. Paladins have greater defense so they should have lesser offense than some of the other tanks. So what if other tanks can kill faster. Too many people are making a big fuss out of nothing. It would be utterly stupid if paladins were the only viable tanks in the game and people had to recruit one else they could not kill anything.

[Zagen]

First off, paladins are not useless. They provide a powerful blend of high defense and cure power no other job can, and can even play a powerful support role with the right sub job and equipment. If players fail to utilize all of their strengths that isn't the fault of the paladin.

None of this is needed in a tank outside of Voidwatch currently.

Edit: BTW a BLU provides higher DEF and Cure power than PLD. As well as much more damage.