Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 69
  1. #41
    Player AyinDygra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    286
    Character
    Varos
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    The reason most people were/are willing to do certain events that they don't like, is because they want the best possible gear. Any endgame event with incredibly low drop rates only serves its purpose of drawing people to continue doing the event as long as the gear obtained from it is the best.

    The success of Salvage was that the Salvage sets were the best for certain jobs (at least certain pieces), so people went through the event, even if they didn't like it or its horrible drop rates, and the expense of creating the gear. The fact that the gear is no longer the best shows directly in the unpopularity of the event outside of mythic upgraders or those looking to make money off said upgraders. (For completion's sake, I still have several pieces of gear I'd like to finish, but nobody I know wants to do it at all, even to take out a force-popped NM to complete a piece.)

    The success of Abyssea gear wasn't just how "easy" (I use the term loosely) it was to obtain gear, it was combined with the fact that people knew it wasn't the "ultimate" gear. The effort required and time spent was proportional to the expected performance of the gear and future prospects of its usefulness.

    The problem with the current "new endgame" events, is that we still have another level cap increase on the horizon, and a whole new selection of "the best gear" close at hand. Who in their right mind would put themselves through events like that for a year or more with those drop rates for something that will only be the best for a limited time (for any significant period of time... longer than the time it took to obtain it) which they know they'll have to replace -- perhaps within a year!.

    Most of the current rewards have extremely low drop rates and yet, they provide only small increases in performance, and we all expect better gear to be revealed at/after level 99. These "intermediate" endgame events need better drop rates for gear that is certainly not going to be the best.

    Real "final" endgame events with real "ultimate" gear can have fairly low drop rates without overly angering most players, since this is what we've been conditioned to expect from FFXI's "random" drops.

    However, for players who play the game for fun, not for work, an even better system for endgame should invoke feelings of accomplishment rather than the thrill of the lottery, knowing that by our effort and time spent, we're making progress little by little. This is why in-game point systems (and even the Magian Trials) are better than random drop systems for rewards, in my opinion - and while it may not keep a person with only one job leveled busy as long as they'd like, many players have multiple jobs, increasing the points they need to gear up each individual job.

    Anyway, that's my analysis of the game's design moving forward, and hopefully the intended audience understands the reasoning presented.
    (9)

  2. #42
    Player Vold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    908
    Character
    Voldermolt
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    I wonder how many of us here understand the difference between producer and director? There's too much presuming going on here. An innocent man may very well be catching flack he didn't earn.

    I think the problem here is that devs don't play the game. Play the game Mr. Tanaka and company. For a few days. Hack yourselves up a level 95 character on one of the servers. Go to WoE for a few hours. Try out Voidwatch with a shout crew. Do whatever. When you come out of it with a full grown beard and a better understanding of the players view, if you feel you are pleased with the game then I'll back you for life, brothers(and possible sisters). If the creators of a game can stomach their creation then there's not much a customer can say or do at that point. It's either pay up or shut up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull View Post
    But what about people who like huge mega shells, camping and endgame drama?

    Yes those people exist, I'm one of them.
    Yet you fear drama enough to hide behind a lv1 mule. Sounds to me you're just playing devil's advocate here.
    (1)


    Regular "John" Doe
    - Not on the Community Team

  3. #43
    Player Hayward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by AyinDygra View Post
    The reason most people were/are willing to do certain events that they don't like, is because they want the best possible gear. Any endgame event with incredibly low drop rates only serves its purpose of drawing people to continue doing the event as long as the gear obtained from it is the best.

    The success of Salvage was that the Salvage sets were the best for certain jobs (at least certain pieces), so people went through the event, even if they didn't like it or its horrible drop rates, and the expense of creating the gear. The fact that the gear is no longer the best shows directly in the unpopularity of the event outside of mythic upgraders or those looking to make money off said upgraders. (For completion's sake, I still have several pieces of gear I'd like to finish, but nobody I know wants to do it at all, even to take out a force-popped NM to complete a piece.)

    The success of Abyssea gear wasn't just how "easy" (I use the term loosely) it was to obtain gear, it was combined with the fact that people knew it wasn't the "ultimate" gear. The effort required and time spent was proportional to the expected performance of the gear and future prospects of its usefulness.

    The problem with the current "new endgame" events, is that we still have another level cap increase on the horizon, and a whole new selection of "the best gear" close at hand. Who in their right mind would put themselves through events like that for a year or more with those drop rates for something that will only be the best for a limited time (for any significant period of time... longer than the time it took to obtain it) which they know they'll have to replace -- perhaps within a year!.

    Most of the current rewards have extremely low drop rates and yet, they provide only small increases in performance, and we all expect better gear to be revealed at/after level 99. These "intermediate" endgame events need better drop rates for gear that is certainly not going to be the best.

    Real "final" endgame events with real "ultimate" gear can have fairly low drop rates without overly angering most players, since this is what we've been conditioned to expect from FFXI's "random" drops.

    However, for players who play the game for fun, not for work, an even better system for endgame should invoke feelings of accomplishment rather than the thrill of the lottery, knowing that by our effort and time spent, we're making progress little by little. This is why in-game point systems (and even the Magian Trials) are better than random drop systems for rewards, in my opinion - and while it may not keep a person with only one job leveled busy as long as they'd like, many players have multiple jobs, increasing the points they need to gear up each individual job.

    Anyway, that's my analysis of the game's design moving forward, and hopefully the intended audience understands the reasoning presented.
    I'll agree and disagree with this post. There were many things I did not like about Classic Dynamis (low Relic armor drops, absurd monster distribution in certain places, and artificial rarity of 100 drops that discouraged the majority of players from even thinking about building Relic weapons/shields/instruments being chief among them), but I enjoyed the experience and the armor, for the most part, made it a worthwhile trip.

    Were Dynamis anything close to being like Salvage, I'd have never even tried it. Repeating the same event over and over and getting nothing done is no more "hardcore" than running headfirst into a brick wall repeatedly and expecting it to crumble the next time around. The caliber of gear involved isn't and wasn't THAT important for me.

    Any game should ultimately be played for fun and that goes for MMOs, too. Wanting to be the best at what you do in game is fine, but at what point does it come at the cost of enjoyment of the game itself? It has become more than obvious over the years that Mr. Tanaka's way of game development was counterproductive and gave players little to no reason to go for the best items (some of you can attribute this to laziness all you like, but I wonder if the reflections in your mirrors would believe that, much less anyone else). Abyssea was a reaction against this carrot-in-front-of-a-treadmill approach to gaming and people breathed a cathartic sigh of relief when Visions was released. The only people that were griping were those who rode bandwagon jobs and lost their excuses for excluding other jobs from various activities. Regrettably, S-E listened when Scars and Heroes arrived, but that's a different topic.

    This update really makes me uneasy about the final stretch of this game. I've said that limiting scrolls that certain jobs need to event drops was an invitation to HNM LS people to jack up prices to the moon and beyond. I can only hope that S-E's ears aren't only tuned in favor of the professional endgamers who want the game to be only about them.
    (1)
    Last edited by Hayward; 09-29-2011 at 06:09 AM.
    Hayward: Cerberus-San d'Oria

    5/5 +1: Cirque [4/5], Tantra [4/5], Ferine [4/5], Estoqueur's [1/5], Sylvan, Navarch's [1/5], Savant's, Orison [1/5], Charis [2/5]

    5/5 +2: Creed, Caller's, Unkai, Iga, Raider's, Lancer's, Mavi, Ravager's, Goetia, Bale, Aoidos'

  4. #44
    Player Zaknafein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Kweh!
    Posts
    539
    Character
    Fistandantilus
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Vold View Post
    Yet you fear drama enough to hide behind a lv1 mule.
    I LOL'd.....
    (2)

    ~Party Rock Anthem~

  5. #45
    Player Asymptotic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    656
    Character
    Sylow
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayward
    . I've said that limiting scrolls that certain jobs need to event drops was an invitation to HNM LS people to jack up prices to the moon and beyond.
    You need to be in a HNMLS to do HKCNM fights?
    (1)

  6. #46
    Player Hashmalum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    201
    Character
    Hashmalum
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    To be honest, when I saw Tanaka's name on the test server announcement, I had hoped that it was an honorary type of thing--once a producer, always a producer, or something. Looking at the way that the game developed over his tenure, and even more so looking at the way FFXIV turned out at release, made me think that neither Tanaka nor anyone over him ever asked himself some key questions. Questions like "What did we do right, and what did we do wrong?" and "How has the MMO marketplace changed?" It seems as if there has been a serious failure to reflect and Tanaka has been associated with it.

    Because of this association, I am less hopeful for the future than I was for the past few months, when I began seeing encouraging signs from the FFXI dev team. I am not saying "I'll quit because Tanaka is in charge"... but... once I've finished my near term and medium term goals, I'm going to be more skeptical and less hopeful about what's coming next. I won't be undertaking any longer-term projects, like an Empyrean, or leveling more jobs. And if I don't have a lot of hope for the game's future, I am likely to take another break from playing (and paying) while waiting to see what's next, instead of simply assuming it's likely to be worth sticking around to see.
    (1)

  7. #47
    Player Atomic_Skull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,248
    Character
    Bjorne
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 5
    Quote Originally Posted by Eradius View Post
    Yes, completely aware of that as well.

    Have you also noticed how few scrolls we've gotten with 90+ people spamming WoE runs all day every day plus people shouting for the BC's? I don't even mean the 5-10 that have sold on some server's Auction Houses. At the rate we're going it will take well over a year just to get scrolls for only the mages that -currently- exist and need them. Sure, that keeps people going to the event. Sure, that makes WoE+BC's a "success". There is fallout to consider from this however.
    For there to be a reason to do those BCNMs someone somewhere has to get screwed by supply and demand. Otherwise they are just useless content that nobody ever does.

    Having a few 50-100k items drop isn't enough incentive for people to go out of their way and spend several hours to doing these BCNMs. They will instead say "screw that, it's not worth the time" and not do them.
    (2)
    Last edited by Atomic_Skull; 09-29-2011 at 09:42 AM.

  8. #48
    Player Atomic_Skull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,248
    Character
    Bjorne
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 5
    Quote Originally Posted by Insaniac View Post
    It's a classic (outdated) MMO design strategy that expoilts human nature and practically every event Tanaka ever designed followed the same guidelines. "Well, I've already killed this thing 75 times. I must be due for a drop so I can't stop now!!."
    Using the skinner box method is highly effective at keeping people playing. Why would they switch to something less effective? If they aren't doing everything in their power to make as much money as possible for their shareholders then they aren't doing their job.
    (0)

  9. #49
    Player Hayward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull View Post
    Using the skinner box method is highly effective at keeping people playing. Why would they switch to something less effective? If they aren't doing everything in their power to make as much money as possible for their shareholders then they aren't doing their job.
    No one sane--or at least honest with themselves--is buying that on Allakhazam, nor will it sell here. We're not lab rats, and the developers would do well not to play us as such if they hope to keep the game going.
    (3)
    Hayward: Cerberus-San d'Oria

    5/5 +1: Cirque [4/5], Tantra [4/5], Ferine [4/5], Estoqueur's [1/5], Sylvan, Navarch's [1/5], Savant's, Orison [1/5], Charis [2/5]

    5/5 +2: Creed, Caller's, Unkai, Iga, Raider's, Lancer's, Mavi, Ravager's, Goetia, Bale, Aoidos'

  10. #50
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    960
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull View Post
    Using the skinner box method is highly effective at keeping people playing. Why would they switch to something less effective? If they aren't doing everything in their power to make as much money as possible for their shareholders then they aren't doing their job.
    I hope you're being facetious.
    (2)

    Sparthosx - Lakshmi - 90 BLU BRD SAM COR RNG DNC PUP BST WAR WHM
    Sig by Kingfury

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast