The debate-free Poll.

[Neisan_Quetz]

For game balance? Yea it is, Look at twilight scythe, endeath and it's still a joke, mortal ray for Blu- also a joke. Temper is good for meleeing but it doesn't make us any more viable for 'alliance fights' any more than it did pre update.

Rdm is still behind Blu in white damage, and that's with temper/gain-str, and they aren't exactly in high demand for tougher fights either.

[saevel]

For game balance? Yea it is, Look at twilight scythe, endeath and it's still a joke, mortal ray for Blu- also a joke. Temper is good for meleeing but it doesn't make us any more viable for 'alliance fights' any more than it did pre update.

Rdm is still behind Blu in white damage, and that's with temper/gain-str, and they aren't exactly in high demand for tougher fights either.

All the more reason to buff the melee side then.

As I've said in several threads, I'm already doing the "melee RDM" thing, have been doing it since 2003 when I first played the game. It's had its ups and downs. Was never an issue in the past, you just had some really bad RDM's meleeing in crap gear and ignoring the primary reason they were invited (refreshing the WHM, BLM and PLD). Later once full time healing become expected, then you were simply too busy, plus main healing and meleeing are not compatible with each other.

Meleeing only took a hit post 76, when SE did stupid things like putting us on teal but not the pink gear, yet BLU gets both. Putting BLU on mage gear but keeping RDM off most melee gear for the past couple of updates. Thankfully it looks like that time is over now, as we've been thrown a few bones.

SE has made a point that their going to be doing more to encourage RDM's to melee, they've also made a point that their going to introduce more enfeebles. Melee updates are easy to do and they've demonstrated proficiency in doing so, even if the sometimes need feedback. Enfeebling on the other hand they've screwed up since day 1 and I don't expect them to get it right.

Anyhow back to the point at hand, all sides of RDM should be buffed. RDM melee is not a toy, to anyone who's actually tried it becomes rather obvious that it's not a toy. Are we like the WAR / MNK / SAMs? No and we shouldn't be. We're good enough to contribute rather then standing in the back with our stave's shoved where the sun don't shine pretending to be useful. At least up front I'm actually contributing measurable and meaningfully rather then pretending that the extra 10 MND on Slow I get from using a club will actually do something.

[Neisan_Quetz]

And I'm perfectly fine with it post Temper. Keep including Rdm on new gear and Rdm melee is just fine where it's at for me.

[saevel]

And I'm perfectly fine with it post Temper. Keep including Rdm on new gear and Rdm melee is just fine where it's at for me.

This and fix the WS distribution for non-emp RDM's. Fixing enspells would be nice too.

RDM doesn't need *more* melee buffs, they need what's there to be fixed already. Its the mage side that needs more shiny spells.

[Swords]

I never said it was a reason to bring a Rdm, but Embrava being outside pt castable doesn't mean I'm going to be adding Sch to pts anytime soon either.

And no it doesn't matter since you're having them blow all their strats on hastes or Accession buffs... really.

Heh, 2hr chest pops are pretty common in Abyssea SCH's can just spam the hell out of Embrava at their leisure making it more of a zerg fest than it already is, I find it hard anyone would overlook that fact since Abyssea is about the only thing that matters in this game too most.

Even outside it would be pretty damn invaluable, it's like a superpowered atma and it has a long duration with Perpetulance. Get 2-3x SCH/WHM's for Voidwatch cycle Embrava when they wear and you have a constant superpowered regain/haste/regen throughout the battle, what melee job WOULDN'T want to abuse that. And while most do not generally melee on VWNM's in a normal setting, it does not mean it wouldn't open up the possibility.

NINJA EDIT: For added effect SCH's could also throw out extended duration/aoe Regen III's and stoneskins for damage mitigation, and single haste's to put the melees pretty damn close to the haste cap (if they have haste capped via gear/hasso).

Pretty overpowering potential for one job if you ask me. ;P

[Shiyo]

Too bad SCH is completely useless inside abyssea.

[Shiyo]

All the more reason to buff the melee side then.

As I've said in several threads, I'm already doing the "melee RDM" thing, have been doing it since 2003 when I first played the game. It's had its ups and downs. Was never an issue in the past, you just had some really bad RDM's meleeing in crap gear and ignoring the primary reason they were invited (refreshing the WHM, BLM and PLD). Later once full time healing become expected, then you were simply too busy, plus main healing and meleeing are not compatible with each other.

Meleeing only took a hit post 76, when SE did stupid things like putting us on teal but not the pink gear, yet BLU gets both. Putting BLU on mage gear but keeping RDM off most melee gear for the past couple of updates. Thankfully it looks like that time is over now, as we've been thrown a few bones.

SE has made a point that their going to be doing more to encourage RDM's to melee, they've also made a point that their going to introduce more enfeebles. Melee updates are easy to do and they've demonstrated proficiency in doing so, even if the sometimes need feedback. Enfeebling on the other hand they've screwed up since day 1 and I don't expect them to get it right.

Anyhow back to the point at hand, all sides of RDM should be buffed. RDM melee is not a toy, to anyone who's actually tried it becomes rather obvious that it's not a toy. Are we like the WAR / MNK / SAMs? No and we shouldn't be. We're good enough to contribute rather then standing in the back with our stave's shoved where the sun don't shine pretending to be useful. At least up front I'm actually contributing measurable and meaningfully rather then pretending that the extra 10 MND on Slow I get from using a club will actually do something.

Can I live in the universe you live in too? Must be cool there in bizzaro land.

[noodles355]

The more I read this thread, the more it becomes apparant that our mage side is in serious need of some loving. Maybe people shout stfu about melee until these more serious issues are sorted out. We don't want SE to mis-interpret and think we want melee upgrades more than mage ones.

[Doombringer]

eh, yah. i fall on the pro-melee side of this thing, but we just got temper. if nothing else it shows that my opinions are on the devs radar. i'm willing to sit back for a while and see what they do with backline stuff.

don't gemme wrong i hope they don't completely FORGET melee stuff for another 3 years... like last time they decided to "return rdm to the frontlines" but it's the other sides "turn"

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The more I read this thread, the more it becomes apparant that our mage side is in serious need of some loving. Maybe people shout stfu about melee until these more serious issues are sorted out. We don't want SE to mis-interpret and think we want melee upgrades more than mage ones.

And I want both sides buffed, people forget it DOESN'T have to be one or the other.