Dancer Suggestions: Round II

[Asymptotic]

Hello Again FFXI Development Team!
(also to everyone out there in FFXI Forum Land <3)

I assume you've caught wind of my original suggestion thread, because one of your responses relayed to us by Camate was basically a direct response to one of my suggestions (that I didn't see in the Japanese side of the forums). Anyway, I think I sort of have a feel for the direction you want to take Dancer now, and now that I absolutely know you think splitting waltz timers as they are would be unbalanced (as I've said you thought all along!), I'd like to address more things, as well as comment on things that I didn't comment on before.

I know the Dancer community seems pretty upset and perhaps even at arms with the unpopularity of Ternary Flourish, but I'd like to point out that people were simply disappointed that so many great support abilities have been suggested, but it seems like they were ignored for Ternary Flourish, an ability with dubious applicability to today's endgame. That said, I have full confidence that you will use Ternary Flourish as a learning experience and make better design choices down the road, as you have been very responsive to the concerns of other job communities.

Perhaps then we should discuss the existing issues and potential ways to address them.

The Dancer's Role: Many people, like myself, were drawn to the Dancer class because they like both support roles and being on the front lines, and the Dancer class theoretically combined the two. At the 75 cap, this was very true and Dancers were some of the most efficient healers around. However, mages have gotten exponentially more and more powerful (especially since the constraints of MP have mostly been removed everywhere), and the Dancer's support abilities have been increased very slightly. As such, the Dancer class has been transformed into a self-sufficient mid-tier damage-dealing class (think DRG/WHM) with minor support abilities (the usefulness of Haste Samba is even decreasing due to the increased power of Bard's March spell, and now, Embrava).

Dangers of the Front Lines: A major issue with the Dancer class especially in end game content such as Voidwatch, is that it gets absolutely torn to pieces on the front lines due to area of effect attacks. For Dancer to perform its job in these sorts of arenas, it needs to be able to survive. I discuss a way to address this in a later section.

The Waltz Issue: Healing waltz absolutely NEEDS to be on a separate timer from the other waltzes. Raise its TP cost if you want to. You don't need to touch the other waltzes, although I would poersonally split Divine Waltzes into a separate category and increase their TP cost, as well. Do it like this:

Curing Waltz --> Contains I/II/III/IV/V
Healing Waltz --> Healing Waltz, and you could maybe add a Healing Waltz II that is AoE or something (like BLU's Winds of Promyvion)
Divine Waltz ---> I/II and add a very expensive Divine Waltz III.

I'm sure this would require a significant amount of programming, but yeah. Trust me, it would be worth it.

That about addresses the existing issues, so I'll move on to specific categorical ideas.

(by the way Dev team, I need a new job, feel free to hire me. I have ideas for most of the other jobs, too!)

[Asymptotic]

Suggestions for Job Abilities

[SIZE="5"]Something Completely New![/SIZE]

The following two abilities are designed to give use to some of the flourishes that we have mostly forgotten about as high-level Dancers. It's also aimed at solving the problem where one flourish in a category particularly outshines the others, preventing the others from seeing usage, ever. Perhaps breathing life into some of our old abilities is the key to solidifying the role of the class? I put them on a shared recast timer for balance concerns, but I think the 2nd ability will be much more popular than the first. Maybe separating them wouldn't be overpowered after all?

À ma guise Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with Glissade]
The next Flourish may be used without expending finishing moves.
** For finishing moves which can use differing numbers of finishing moves, it would use the lowest amount. It might be interesting to enhance this ability with a piece of equipment, adding one finishing move to the effect. The name means "As I please."

Glissade Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with À ma guise]
The next Flourish may be used without resetting its category's recast timer.
** This ability would also give the other Flourishes III besides climactic some viability. It would open up a lot of possibilities. The name "Glissade" means to run two dance moves together in one fluid motion, so it's obviously meant to be used to combine Flourishes (Byrth pointed out that Striking/Climactic/Ternary are mutually exclusive, so they would have to be changed to not share the same buff slot, but I don't think that's too horrible of a fix to make?):

1.) Reverse ---> Step/No Foot Rise --> Building: would allow Dancers to buff the closing weapon skill of a solo skillchain.

2.) Ternary Flourish + Climactic Flourish --> This is pretty self-explanatory! Would certainly give a potential use to Ternary!

3.) Ternary Flourish + Striking Flourish --> Would result in a 4-hit attack, and allow enhancement from the Charis Casaque to the first and second hits. Also, then you wouldn't need to feel inclined to add a Quaternary Flourish. (Seriously, please don't give us a Quaternary Flourish)

5.) Reverse --> Step / No Foot Rise ---> Reverse Great for generating a large amount of TP very quickly, if needed.

6.) Wild Flourish --> Reverse Flourish --> Solo 2-step Skillchains. (Wild --> Evisceration --> Transfixion ---> Evisceration/Dancing Edge --> Distortion) etc.

There are countless other combinations, of course but I figured these were the ones best worth mentioning.

I have made my suggestions for the "TP-draining ability which gives party members some kind of effect" in the other suggestion thread multiple times, so I'm assuming Camate has already relayed that information

[SIZE="5"]Flourishes IV[/SIZE]

Since I'm assuming Flourishes III is over (seriously guys, It's over, time to move on!), we should start looking forward to Flourishes IV. Since Flourishes I were utility abilities, Flourishes II were self-enhancement abilities, and Flourishes III were aimed at increasing damage output, Flourishes IV should be party support abilities. Also, since it's Flourishes IV and presumably the last flourish category ever, I'm going to go crazy and put *4* flourishes here, one which is very silly, but could be fun.

Glittering Flourish: (3-5 Finishing Moves): Reduces the damage nearby party members take from a single magical attack. [Target: Self. Range: 20'] Reduces damage from the next magical attack by 30-40-50% (depending on number of finishing moves). Potential to enhance this amount with gear and/or merits. (Recast 1:30) [PLEASE HAVE THE ANIMATION SHOWER THE PARTY WITH GLITTER]
Prismatic Flourish: (2-5 Finishing Moves): Restores MP to the target party member [Target -Party - Cannot target self]. 5-10-20-25% MP recovery (depending on the number of finishing moves). (Recast 2:00) Potential to enhance this amount with gear and/or merits.
Tactical Flourish: (1-5 Finishing Moves): Restores the target party member's TP [Target - Party - Cannot target self]. 10 -25 -50 - 75 - 100 TP depending on the number of finishing moves expended. (Recast 2:00)
Arcane Flourish: (1 Finishing Move): Imbues your next attack with forbidden and poorly understood magic. (Recast 30s? 1m?)

Arcane Flourish would have a very unhelpful description, just for kicks, really. It would double the damage of your next normal attack (would not double the damage of a weapon skill) and attempt to inflict a random status ailment from a predetermined list. A critical hit under Arcane's effects would inflict more powerful status ailments. I haven't decided what sort of additional effects would be attached to arcane, but you could consider: defense down, magic defense down, evasion down, magic evasion down, critical hit evasion down (for normal hits) and more powerful effects such as strong slow and paralyze for a critical hit. You could use climactic to guarantee one of the better effects.

These are just my ideas for Flourishes IV, but I'd like others to give some ideas too

[SIZE="5"]Addressing the Dangers of the Front Lines[/SIZE]

The best thing I could come up with is sort of a stance. I actually think it's pretty neat, so maybe you'll like the idea too? Of course, one of the problems with reducing the damage taken by a Dancer is that it's already a good soloist, so you'd have to make it an ability that doesn't work solo, and I designed this ability with that in mind.

Contrecorps: As long as you are not the center of attention, you expend finishing moves to reduce the amount of damage you take. (Recast 5:00, Duration 5:00 or until you are the top of the enmity list.)

When taking damage from an area of effect attack, this "stance" would strip the Dancer of Finishing Moves and reduce the damage taken by some percentage depending on the number of finishing moves remaining. If the Dancer takes hate the effect would wear off immediately. I'd think it would be something like 15% per finishing move (75% for a full 5). Obviously only a Dancer with Terpsichore could keep up with the demands of an extremely AoE-heavy fight this way, so an ability like this would have the added bonus of adding viability to that weapon. This ability would also force the Dancer to manage their enmity quite carefully as to not remove the effect by taking hate, as well as make very smart decisions regarding the timing and usage of finishing moves.

This is a pretty radical and new idea, but I think it's a great solution that would add new aspects to the Dancer's role in many situations. It would also go great with the TP draining ability that gives party members an effect, because it would allow the DNC to much more safely keep this up. I don't think it's overpowered because other classes which support can keep themselves safe by just staying out of range. A Dancer simply does not have that option.

[Absit]

Prismatic Flourish: (2-5 Finishing Moves): Restores MP to the target party member [Target -Party]. 5-10-20-25% MP recovery (depending on the number of finishing moves). (Recast 2:00)

^
One thousand times this! But one minor twink. Make it low level. Somewhere between 5~45. As I would like to use this while having Dnc subbed with my Blu, making it all the more useful.

[Asymptotic]

^
One thousand times this! But one minor twink. Make it low level. Somewhere between 5~45. As I would like to use this while having Dnc subbed with my Blu, making it all the more useful.

As these are suggestions to add utility to main job DNC, I'm going to have to say that would defeat the purpose.

[Absit]

As these are suggestions to add utility to main job DNC, I'm going to have to say that would defeat the purpose.

I stick by my guns...low level ability...

[Asymptotic]

I stick by my guns...low level ability...

Additionally when I said "target party member" that was meant to mean that you can't self-target it, so the purpose you were suggesting wouldn't work anyhow.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

As these are suggestions to add utility to main job DNC, I'm going to have to say that would defeat the purpose.

Easy enough to gimp it for subjob if they really wanted too.

Personally it wouldn't be that great, so I'm all for it being DNC exclusive, that said DNC really needs unique abilities, this just basically steals from WHM's Devotion.

[Asymptotic]

Easy enough to gimp it for subjob if they really wanted too.

Personally it wouldn't be that great, so I'm all for it being DNC exclusive, that said DNC really needs unique abilities, this just basically steals from WHM's Devotion.

I guess they shouldn't give DNC the foreshadowed regain ability, because that would steal from SCH's Adloquium.

[Moonracer]

Suggestions for Job Abilities

Glissade Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with À ma guise]
The next Flourish may be used without resetting its category's recast timer.
** This ability would also give the other Flourishes III besides climactic some viability. It would open up a lot of possibilities. The name "Glissade" means to run two dance moves together in one fluid motion, so it's obviously meant to be used to combine Flourishes (Byrth pointed out that Striking/Climactic/Ternary are mutually exclusive, so they would have to be changed to not share the same buff slot, but I don't think that's too horrible of a fix to make?):

5.) Reverse --> Step / No Foot Rise ---> Reverse Great for generating a large amount of TP very quickly, if needed.

Speaking as an often main job DNC (second in loves only trumped by PLD) I can see the potential of everything, and would love it. But this one, though I love its potential, and would personally be very evil with it, could be a break. Thinking more on its use, this could set up a double skillchain, meaning that given the right conditions, dnc could easily create a double darkness skillchain by himself. If you think of potential, even more so in abyssea, that would put dnc damage potential, potentially the same as a SAM. Now, as I said, i'm not really against it, just tryin to balance it. The 5 min recast keeps it from being a true breaker, but this would mean that it would also have to be unmeritable if they implemented this, and added a slew of new stuff for 99 merits. Thoughts?

[Andreah]

Contrecorps: As long as you are not the center of attention, you expend finishing moves to reduce the amount of damage you take. (Recast 5:00, Duration 5:00 or until you are the top of the enmity list.)

When taking damage from an area of effect attack, this "stance" would strip the Dancer of Finishing Moves and reduce the damage taken by some percentage depending on the number of finishing moves remaining. If the Dancer takes hate the effect would wear off immediately. I'd think it would be something like 15% per finishing move (75% for a full 5). Obviously only a Dancer with Terpsichore could keep up with the demands of an extremely AoE-heavy fight this way, so an ability like this would have the added bonus of adding viability to that weapon. This ability would also force the Dancer to manage their enmity quite carefully as to not remove the effect by taking hate, as well as make very smart decisions regarding the timing and usage of finishing moves.

This is a pretty radical and new idea, but I think it's a great solution that would add new aspects to the Dancer's role in many situations. It would also go great with the TP draining ability that gives party members an effect, because it would allow the DNC to much more safely keep this up. I don't think it's overpowered because other classes which support can keep themselves safe by just staying out of range. A Dancer simply does not have that option.

If you don't mind, I'd like to have a small discussion with you about this proposed ability.

I like the idea you're going for when it comes to this ability, but it seems to lack some balance to it. Dancer in this "mode" could effectively mitigate at a full 5 Finishing Moves practically any and all damage coming towards them. It's not hard to continually stack Finishing Moves in most situations unless Step Accuracy against the mob you're fighting is a major factor even without a Terpsichore. With that and the notion that less damage taken means less waltzes and less enmity gained overall, this ability seems to take a turn from aiding a Dancer's already well-padded survival skills to making them impossible to kill so long as the circumstances are met, especially with any Damage taken gear stacked onto the build.

It's a great idea, especially in a magic damage situation where Dancer's will usually eat dirt faster than most front-lines, but it seems a little too overpowered for practical use with a five minute duration on a five minute timer. Perhaps lowering the percentage it removes or decreasing the duration a bit?