Gun Ninjas!?

[wish12oz]

Yes, that's current stats. That's not hard to understand at all. Read back at what I wrote, you'll see I addressed that issue by suggesting that with Sange improvements throwing weapons and any stats surrounding them could be improved.

It's a pretty astronomical jump from what is there now, compared to what they would need to add to make throwing worth using. Exactly what part of anything SE has ever done with this game leads you believe SE will add a ranged weapon that will do as much damage and gain as much TP as 5+ attacks? I mean, I can see from the rest of your post you're pretty clueless on how game mechanics work, but I just want to understand why you are white knighting throwing so much. It's terrible and basically can't be fixed, I fail to see why you don't understand this.

everybody who thinks differently is an idiot and can't play their job

Math, it's awesome because there's a right answer, and wrong answer.

It's this frothing at the mouth culture surrounding some of this game's fanatics I find difficult to understand.

Apparently you never had to stand around and wait to do something while a bunch of horrible people took forever to get out of the way.

[MojoJojo]

Apparently you never had to stand around and wait to do something while a bunch of horrible people took forever to get out of the way.

Or, god forbid, you are trying to accomplish something WITH these folks. Now, i personally haven't had many dealings with friends who want to play ass-backwards, but i know it's out there. Alot.

The simple math backs up the frothing-at-the-mouth, and sure SE COULD make throwing (and guns, which was the original topic) comparative to just swinging katanas, but as Wish said they would have to totally break it just to appease a few folks, which is something they will never do. I really don't find it difficult to understand at all. Katana's cause more damage, and you recieve more tp per round to deal....more damage. The math is obvious and simple. What I do find difficult to understand is how people attach themselves to an impossible dream that will never be implemented properly and defend it to the death. I'm all for thinking outside the box, and coming up with new ways to play a job....that's how Nin-tanking started, but when the new way is junk....let it be.

My argument, as has been from the start, is SE should be focusing on something useful. I can't stress that enough. We only get a few merit categories, and having them wasted to add a buff or two for a USELESS ability is ridiculous. SE's skeleton crew dev team shouldn't be wasting any time on it, especially the effort it would take to make the useless stuff useful.

[MojoJojo]

Turning our job(s) into silly japanese cartoons isn't the best direction to take. If you want to play Naruto or DBZ, theres a few dozen games made specifically for that reason.

[Saefinn]

It's a pretty astronomical jump from what is there now, compared to what they would need to add to make throwing worth using. Exactly what part of anything SE has ever done with this game leads you believe SE will add a ranged weapon that will do as much damage and gain as much TP as 5+ attacks? I mean, I can see from the rest of your post you're pretty clueless on how game mechanics work, but I just want to understand why you are white knighting throwing so much. It's terrible and basically can't be fixed, I fail to see why you don't understand this.

Of course it CAN be fixed, it's only programming at the end of the day not real-world physics, the question is how much work would it take to fix? Unfortunately we don't have sight of FFXI's source code so we don't know how difficult it is for them to fix it. Yes, it's currently terrible, but if SE want it fixed then it's NOT an impossibility. It just means changing the code, it could be an easy fix or it could be an extremely difficult fix, again we can't see the source code. Are SE likely to do it and is it something that needs priority? I doubt it, but if there are people who want it, then I think they're welcome to voice it without being insulted.

For the record, I'm not white-knighting for throwing weapons - I've not even said that I support the idea...I am actually on the fence. I'm just sticking up for people's ideas, which you feel so necessary to insult and then assume the people who made the suggestions are idiots who can't play their jobs.

Math, it's awesome because there's a right answer, and wrong answer.

But everything doesn't boil down to maths. Getting the perfect set up does come down to maths, yes. However, FFXI is a game and people play it because it's meant to be 'fun' and sometimes I feel people forget that. What actually works isn't binary, read any number of testimonies on NM's and you'll see people have different set-ups and different methods based on how they play the game. Hence why I refrain from telling people how to play their jobs, instead I let them figure it out and decide what they enjoy best and what works best for them - when it comes to a party setting, yes, I'll expect them to be useful and may request they fill a certain role but even then how they fill that role is down to them, I'd hate to suddenly trample over their enjoyment. If you wish to go down the route of being an elite player, that's entirely up to you, but it doesn't make it 'right'.



Now, when it comes to game mechanics, yes, some things just don't work and aren't sensible and currently it's the case of throwing weapons. What's also awesome about maths is that equations can be changed when you want a different result - making a change to a mathematical equation in a piece of code isn't impossible.

Apparently you never had to stand around and wait to do something while a bunch of horrible people took forever to get out of the way.

Actually, I have. Paladins who think it's a good idea to take 50 mins to solo an NM and refuse invites that would make it quicker for them so your party can get the next spawn, parties who struggle and spend more time keeping themselves alive and slowly wearing down the NM and people who seem to take forever getting a proc, either because they keep doing it wrong or someone's forgot the proc weapon and has had to run back and get it. Being in those parties is even more annoying and often results in some dick calling somebody a 'noob' and throwing all sorts of insults. When it happens, it happens and you deal with it.

There's time wasters in the game and not all of them are created by players either, SE has introduced their fair share of time-wasters too.

It's a horrible annoyance, but not one that's relevant. If people used throwing weapons now, then yes it'd take forever to weaken an enemy and yes you would be waiting for a long time. If throwing weapons were useful at dealing damage enough to make them a viable option then surely this would not be a part of the issue.

Plus, even though it's an annoyance, I avoid being a dick to people and I'm patient about it, but also I don't go out of my way to shit on people's ideas - I'd much prefer to help them improve them or simply say I don't think it'll work or say that I don't support the idea. Insulting people contributes nothing, it just gets people's backs up.

[Jar]

<_< why all these odd ability suggestions give us a snapshot trait(for throwing) and low delay Stars that are cheep to make.. (also at wish12oz i use throwing offten to get tp for procs when drinks are down in VW)

oh also Quadruple shot can i have it.

[wish12oz]

<_< why all these odd ability suggestions give us a snapshot trait(for throwing) and low delay Stars that are cheep to make.. (also at wish12oz i use throwing offten to get tp for procs when drinks are down in VW)

oh also Quadruple shot can i have it.

You're totally right, all they need to do to fix throwing is make it worth 5+ melee attacks worth of damage and TP gain every time you throw a shuriken. So in VW if they do say 1000 damage each, that would be enough to cover it, abyssea they're gonna need to do 4k+ each.

Now that you see numbers associated with how much damage they would need to do, are you starting to see the ridiculousness of thinking SE is going to add shurikens that do this much damage?

You stand back and throw shurikens to build TP in VW when your fanatics is down, and this happens a lot. My only suggestion to you regarding this is- get a new group that isn't horrible. Most shout alliances I have been in for the last month do better then that, and if you're doing worse then shout alliances, you should really try harder.

[vixin]

I like the idea of adding job abilities that enchance shuriken dmg or allowing use to use ninjutsu imbuned in our throws, maybe even remove the shadow consumption with sange with max merits would be nice to see