Ternary Flourish : post here if you think it needs to be buffed or removed

[MercureXI]

Hi,

Just tried the new JA we are supposed to get next update, Ternary Flourish, on the test server.

Like most DNCs, I'm definitely surprised that SE added that JA instead of something more useful.

Worse, this JA has, for now (no gear to enhance it, no reason to use it), no use at all.


Please post here to show SE that we want that JA either buffed or removed for something else, something we can actually use in events.


Thanks.

[FrankReynolds]

Agreed. This JA doesn't even seem like buffing it would improve it honestly. Only thing I could think of to fix it would be to make it Proc a good weakness.

[Eri]

Remove it. Long recast and not worth to stacking with ws not even Rudras. And it shares recast with Climactic.
so Dnc gets Stuff that Thf would like cause Thf gets nothing good anyway.

BUT Dnc doesnt need it *ever* so remove it. And give us something useful and more supportive. Pretty Please! =P

[Byrth]

We could wait to see whatever "Enhancing" gear they add for it, but realistically this flourish has too long of a recast and too stiff competition to really be competitive. We can spend 3 FMs on a triple attack or 3 FMs on what amounts to 4 consecutive Sneak Attacks, two of which can be stacked with weaponskills to make a big skillchain if your timing is good. Not to mention that we can use the second JA almost twice as often.

[Deathrose]

Remove Trenary Flourish altogether. The ability is utterly worthless and has no use at all. I was thinking that IF you were a terpischore wielder it could be useful for Pyhrric Kleos, but with that 3 min recast its still useless plus climactic flourish now garantees a crit hit and has a much lower recast. SE come on!! Get with the defensive debuffs and stop jerking our chains with non-sense.

[Shibayama]

This ability just needs to be removed entirely and made into something else - possibly a support flourish or a new samba as many people have requested. It was simply not well thought out at all - and frankly you should *never* need gear to enhance an ability to make it not just good, but usable at all - I would rather spend time and effort to get gear that enhances our core abilities like samba and step potency, waltz cooldown and potency or something. Hell I personally would like to see a flourish III that works like climactic except it forces a parry for every move consumed. Could keep the animation just change the effect then.

This whole "ternary" situation is frustrating because it implies that the devs not only have just a paper understanding of the job, but that they don't respect the playerbase's ideas as potentially more valid as their own at times. Yes, I understand you can't always say "Wow what an awesome ability lets do everything these guys want!" and that the devs have their own plans on how they want to direct the job but come on - the slightest bit or research or even *testing* would have proven that after the climactic buff hardly anybody uses striking so why make striking +1? They just chose to continue on with something *they* thought was a good idea, not what we had been asking for for months. We're players who play in a real environment and each job has to work hard to get respect from the playerbase in order to be included in events - unlike them we don't play on a test server with the best gear automatically had and can't just say "Oi Tanaka-san, get the rest of the dev's lets go do PW today!" Why even have these forums if they're not going to be used as a way to compile our ideas, but for us to respond to what they say their plans are and to shoot us down when we try to give our opinion on it?

If they're going to treat us as testers then they have to come to the conclusion that as actual players, if pretty much all of us are crying foul on an ability you don't have to correct our way of thinking, having somebody come and tell us "Oh no, the way we actually meant that to be used was if you don't want to consume all of your moves and blah blah" - you need to change your plans. Otherwise next update we're gunna see quadratic flourish on a 3:30 timer...

In short, I don't think the dev team is the one who should be giving manifesto's - i think that the playerbase should be the ones compiling the direction they want the job to go and submitting it to them at this point - some of us have played our jobs since when they were released so by now *we* know how the job is supposed to be played in a real environment. I get that this idea would probably also cause alot of drama with conflicting ideas and things, like "dnc needs more throwing weapons!!" but in the end most players seem to know *how the job should be played and how to use it*.

[Aiace]

Agreed! We should be getting that actually improves the job since this is the next to last level increase.

[Asymptotic]

I quite honestly don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it will at least have a cool animation.

[Shiyo]

Remove it and give DNC more supporting abilities or a better way to heal again. Bring back the level 75 DNC playstyle, they were INCREDIBLY useful and wanted back then. Now DNC is a crap job with no purpose, DD is not what DNC is meant to be.

I also 100% disagree with listening to the playerbase, just look at temper. They want RDM to be a melee job when it's clearly NOTHING like that at all, and SE needs to completely ignore melee whiners. They should look at how jobs are played in level90 enviroments by good players to see how the job is used and focus on making the job better at that. Right now DNC is only used to solo, but at 75 it was used as a healer and support DD, it needs to go back to the level 75 playstyle if they want this job to have ANY use at all.

[Shibayama]

Remove it and give DNC more supporting abilities or a better way to heal again. Bring back the level 75 DNC playstyle, they were INCREDIBLY useful and wanted back then. Now DNC is a crap job with no purpose, DD is not what DNC is meant to be.

I also 100% disagree with listening to the playerbase, just look at temper. They want RDM to be a melee job when it's clearly NOTHING like that at all, and SE needs to completely ignore melee whiners. They should look at how jobs are played in level90 enviroments by good players to see how the job is used and focus on making the job better at that. Right now DNC is only used to solo, but at 75 it was used as a healer and support DD, it needs to go back to the level 75 playstyle if they want this job to have ANY use at all.

I really don't understand what you're getting at. For starters how much has dancer "changed" functionally since the 75 cap? We still pretty much do the same things we've always done, but due to all the +crit gear and atma and climactic our damage is just better. I dunno about you, but it was at the 75 cap where I was constantly turned down for things because it was my only job - our desirability for low-man groups for seals/+2 items as a blink tank has gone up - we're still just as unnessecary in the eyes of elitists who want "the best healer" or "the best supporter" now as we were back then - nothing has changed. Other than exp parties there was never a big golden age for dancers when it came to big fights like you are referring to.

Dnc sure isn't a "crap job" its just the abyssea mentality has just furthered the already prevalent way of thinking in FFXI that puts many multi-purpose jobs lower on the desirability scale - in a game with 20 jobs, they can't all be the best but they need a niche, which is what many people have been asking for. Getting rid of Ternary in Lieu of another ability, a support ability that really makes a dancer desirable in dangerous fights, or even more defensive abilities to better bolster our solo ability - *anything* would be better than Ternary just because its an unnessecary damage flourish that's outclassed by abilities we already have.

What you're saying is that you don't want the dev team to listen to the playerbase because of... Temper? I'm pretty sure that that ability was a judgement call based on the devs paper understanding of how the job works, not because of a large outcry for more damage potential. Most of the red mages on the forums have been clamoring for more enfeebling power, with a much smaller portion asking for more of the "jack of all trades" aspect, so that was the dev's call. Also the spell sucks with a 5% activation rate, so there's that but I really have not seen people demanding they made RDM a "melee job". The point is, just like dnc they're a jack-of-all-trades job that wants some aspect of "mastery" and desirability.

As I said earlier of course you're going to get people who have ideas like "make ninja reliant on throwing attacks!" There are whole threads started with trains of thought along the lines of "We have it why arnt we *the best at this now obscure aspect of the job" but the majority of players will almost always want updates based on what would improve what the job really shines at with current content. The devs should be paying more attention to that, and stop thinking that they always know the best direction for the job. Taking the job in a new direction to open up their options is one thing, but it just depends on if it's needed or not. For a support/solo/self-sustaining job, our damage ability is quite good, (hell, look at all the drama on the thief boards) so there is no need to focus any more on the "Damage" aspect - atleast not with *another* flourish III when Climactic blows it away.