RDM Balance ...

[Economizer]

RDM has no distinct advantage over those jobs at Curing.

Apparently Fast Cast and mass amounts of mind gear don't exist.

[Crimson_Slasher]

/blm and /drk both have mp though /drk has less, objectively on the otherhand, /blm doesnt have a lot to offer in a single nm endgame situation, as sleepga, elementga 1-2 and the like arent effective on nms, so unless you plan on needing warp, /drk is sufficient. Additionally, while burn/choke/shock or drown/rasp/frost are handy for DOT and stat downs, /drk can do the same, and at time offer other bonuses that may further hinder the mobs, absorb tp (which while hindered by low dark skill, we dont find much outisde abyssea that fights our 255ish dark skill) being one of these handy spells, so while not suited for your playstyle, it is a valid substitution and option that may offer other bonuses more suited to a specific fight.

Edit:
And agreed on fastcast, but partly disagreed on MND. While Mnd does raise potency of cures, it requires hundreds of mnd to actually make a noticible contribution, and with the approach of higher levels and subs, some of that fastcast will be granted to those wishing to sub for cure IV.

[Economizer]

And agreed on fastcast, but partly disagreed on MND. While Mnd does raise potency of cures, it requires hundreds of mnd to actually make a noticible contribution, and with the approach of higher levels and subs, some of that fastcast will be granted to those wishing to sub for cure IV.

Granted, cure potency (which SMN can currently cap and RDM cannot) is a bigger issue then MND, but if you don't break a certain threshold of Mind, your cures will just be gimp in general. Coming Monday, assuming none of the gear got changed, Red Mage will be able to cap cure potency though, as it should considering that SMN currently can.

Sub RDM already gives the max amount of Fast Cast it ever will at even level 70. It is competitive with the buff from Light Arts when /SCH, but Red Mage effectively gets twice the Fast Cast of someone /RDM, not including gear and possible future traits for Red Mage main.

Granted, Red Mage sub is getting Sleep 2, Cure IV and Haste in coming updates, but Red Mage will still be twice as good at Fast Cast unless you are competing with a White Mage (for casting cures/debuff removal) or Scholar (for recasts).

[Crimson_Slasher]

Thats what i was getting at, was that they will still gain access to SOME fastcast, as well as those other great spells, so while they wont cure quite as hard, even at 90, my drk has quite a bit of mnd, only trailing behind in healing skill, they will still become better healers due to being able to cast faster, even if only minorly.

[saevel]

/BLM gives almost nothing that is useful on NMs, my BLM is 65 and rising, plan on getting it to 90 and getting Maats cap.

/BLM
Sleepga
Stun
Warp II
ES
Ele Enfeebles
/DRK
Stun
Abs-line (mostly for procing)
Abs-TP (building TP during initial phase of combat)
SoulEater (damage buff)
LastResort (Attack buff)

Between the two I prefer /DRK so I actually have a chance of building TP prior to the kill it order. Then SE LR CDC and keep going until its dead. /BLM is pretty much for sleepga and Warp II. Ele "enfeebles" are horrible, their so bad that the BLM's done even bother with them. ES ~might~ be useful, except nearly every HNM made in the past few years has flat % reduction in para potency, no matter how much MND you stack you'll never get a decent proc rate, if you can even land it. Blame SE on that one. Max potency Slow II is easy to land now adays, and Dia III always takes effect no matter what. So really, what exactly would I be using ES on, a Nuke once per 10 min.

RDM's just sub BLM for the reason they sub WHM, it's an old habit from 2004 when RDM's job was written in stone by everyone else and then handed to them.

[Shiyo]

Did you just say you melee T4 VW NM's on RDM?

L
O
L

My condolences to the people you play with.

Elemental seal(actually allows you to land slow/para on some NM's that aren't immune to it by having all their attacks being tp moves!), conserve MP, more MP(doesn't matter but w/e), more enfeebles. /BLM gets stun and /drk gets stun, there's no reason to ever sub DRK now. We only subbed it before because /blm didn't give us stun at 75.

Really though, the fact you just said you MELEE T4 VW NM's on rdm, and the fact you sub drk for stun is just lolllllll

[Economizer]

/BLM gives almost nothing that is useful on NMs, my BLM is 65 and rising, plan on getting it to 90 and getting Maats cap.

While I don't doubt in any way that /DRK is incredibly useful for Red Mage based on your arguments, I still doubt that /BLM isn't useful in some situations. I would imagine that /BLM gives you a higher base INT then /DRK, although I can't really test that right now. For landing black magic based enfeebles, /BLM sounds like the job, and /BLM can land multiple elemental enfeebles if your focus is damage over time using Red Mage.

While /DRK might be an incredibly useful sub for Red Mage, I think that /BLM is still useful for Red Mage.

[saevel]

While I don't doubt in any way that /DRK is incredibly useful for Red Mage based on your arguments, I still doubt that /BLM isn't useful in some situations. I would imagine that /BLM gives you a higher base INT then /DRK, although I can't really test that right now. For landing black magic based enfeebles, /BLM sounds like the job, and /BLM can land multiple elemental enfeebles if your focus is damage over time using Red Mage.

While /DRK might be an incredibly useful sub for Red Mage, I think that /BLM is still useful for Red Mage.

Its got it's uses, just not nearly as powerful as people claim. Its only a few INT higher I believe (off the cuff). Ele enfeebles are weak unless your talking a long slow stamina kill, then go for it. The only one I really liked was choke, -VIT can be amazing provided you can get it high enough. Unfortunately the highest we got so far is 150+ INT for 5hp/tick and -13 stat, if they would double that potency then it might be something to look into.

Otherwise the shining jewel from /BLM is Sleepga for when you need good crowd control options. ES + Sleepga together for a guaranteed pause.
-=Edit=-

Just checked, 3 INT different between the two. Honestly if I'm going mage mode then I prefer /SCH, offers more as a total package.

[Economizer]

Granted, yes, I don't think Black Mage should be the be all or end all sub for Red Mage when relying on a more aggressive stance.

The only one I really liked was choke, -VIT can be amazing provided you can get it high enough.

They probably should be stronger, but the fact that you can stack about half of them is pretty amazing in my opinion. But if you are going for stat down, Dark Knight is probably competitive in this area too. For damage over time, stacking three of these and Dia/Bio (in the ideal fight) is probably the best you'll get for DoT damage short of main SCH.

Just checked, 3 INT different between the two. Honestly if I'm going mage mode then I prefer /SCH, offers more as a total package.

Yeah, this is why I was careful not to mention nukes that much in my comment... the boost to skill will win any day when doing damage with elemental spells. Still, a 3 INT difference is pretty pitiful.

Sub Black Mage will still have its uses, but I've heard repeated things about Dark Knight being a great sub for Red Mage when you want a balance between attacking and being able to cast magic.

[saevel]

Granted, yes, I don't think Black Mage should be the be all or end all sub for Red Mage when relying on a more aggressive stance.


Sub Black Mage will still have its uses, but I've heard repeated things about Dark Knight being a great sub for Red Mage when you want a balance between attacking and being able to cast magic.

Well /DRK gives Attack Bonus II for +22 attack along with LR 15% boost for 3min and SE for -8% HP +5% damage per swing. Its a nice offensive boost for when your rushing in to kill whatever it was you were fighting. I've ridden SE the entire 60s before and the damage taken isn't anythings serious, we're RDMs.