[dev1024] - Pining Nocturne

[Creelo]

Can we just fire the dev. team and have people that actually play and understand this game develop it?

Seriously, when's the last time you've fought a monster worth a damn that exclusively casted spells?

Most mobs generally fire off their spells (Even the -aga IVs, etc.) fairly quickly nowadays. Would it truly be that overpowered if mobs had to take an extra .5-2.5 seconds (dependent on spell) to cast their spells?

Why couldnt we test something like this out or even just play with it, the actual players? Why can't the dev. team give us actual numbers too? Instead of foggy terms like "Drastically increased casting time," how about we see something like "The combined effects of Pining Nocturne and Addle would amount to a X% increase in casting time" for once? How did the dev. team come to this conclusion that Pining Nocturne/Addle would absolutely, positively be overpowered if they stacked? I'll bet they tested it on some poor,immobile worms or something...


And how is Slow and Elegy stacking together forgivable since the mob can still use TP moves? I'm 100% sure that Addle/Nocturne would never, could never ever compare to a stacked Elegy/Slow II. Even if a mob takes just 2 seconds in between their attack rounds, Carnage Elegy alone would add another full second to their attack round (+50%). Over time, this is going to amount to way more than Addle/Nocturne affecting spells that mobs will only occasionally cast (as opposed to constantly being under their standard attack round). Not to mention, it's not like the mob casting the spell isn't going to be gaining TP from being attacked by players (or if they have Auto Regain). So what's really the big deal? I mean, I understand a mob can't use TP moves while casting spells, but really dev. team, really?? I should probably shut my trap because soon Elegy and Slow won't stack anymore, but I'll end on this.

The Dev. Team doesn't care about Bard people.

Case in point: Pining Nocturne (and Gjallarhorn... it's STILL a space saver at lvl 95!?!?!)

[Kraggy]

Can we just fire the dev. team and have people that actually play and understand this game develop it?

Because it's obvious players are always entirely objective and are happy to admit when they're OP and need of serious nerfing when it's appropriate .. er .. wait.

[Granny]

If the effects are so over powered then why did they give a low lvl spell that is way stronger than addle and the brd song called silence?

Oh wait, they decided to just make silence, bind, and gravity obsolete, and everything be immune. It's nice as a reward for getting our jobs leveled high to get weaker versions of spells we already have, isnt it everyone?!!!!

[Ahrana]

At first they were

Red Mage

* Vision
Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic.

We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.

* Example Adjustments
o Adding abilities that reduce to zero the casting time or recast time for the next spell/ninjutsu/song.
o New enfeebling magic spells.

But then they

I'm here, I'm here! Sorry it took a bit to get a response.

We received word back from the development team in regards to your question about why Pining Nocturne will not stack with other magic spells.

There have been a lot comments asking why it does not stack when Elegy and Slow, Carol and bar-spells, and Requiem and other DoT spells all stack. However, there are no set rules about what spells and song effects can and cannot be applied at the same time. Each spell and song is decided on a case-by-case basis along with their effects.

For example, the reasoning behind being able to stack Elegy and Slow is that the monster will still be able to use their special abilities so it’s forgivable.

On the other hand, with Nocturne and Addle, since the enemies casting time could be drastically increased, it would become possible to greatly exploit magic-focused enemies in battle.

While it’s fine to have somewhat of an advantage, however, while someone is casting it is not possible to perform any other actions, so prolonging this state is equivalent to making the enemy completely powerless which is why we decided to make the rule that the two spells cannot be stacked.

So you decided that red mages were suppose to make monsters impotent, but then you decided that you didn't want monsters to be impotent, so can you update the job manifesto to lolrdm?

[Pootersmash]

I don't think the issue is comparable to silence(not being able to cast), but more so spending more time casting instead of meleeing. the concern i think they have is when it does cast something like a T4/5 spell, or a -ja spell, the base casting time on those are around 8 seconds. If the mob has some native fastcast(most NMs), maybe 5 seconds casting time. With just rdm sabo+addle, that puts it up to 7.5 seconds. if nocturne did 20%, 8.5 seconds total.

Now every time the NM tries to cast those spells, that's an extra 3.5 seconds he cannot do anything. Now, I don't feel it's overpowering, but i can atleast see why they might be cautious. I feel the suggestion of allowing them to stack, but capping total at +50% is a good option.

[Retsujo]

I personally don't see the point of implementing the song to BRD. There really isn't a song that can't be stacked with the magic-equivalent version, except for now. I personally would've rather had the Requiem update so the devs could've thought about PN a little more...

I would gladly give up PN for a Paralyze or Bind song.

[detlef]

All BRD debuffs overwrite themselves with Nocturne being the one painful and relevant exception.

[Zhronne]

All BRD debuffs overwrite themselves with Nocturne being the one painful and relevant exception.

^ This.
I was talking from a BRD point of view of course, not about other jobs.

[Vortex]

After reading camate's post i understand WHY they won't it stack, if a mob is taking to long to cast you can bascialy beat it down aka zerg while it's trying to cast but then i ask.....why would you give brd the song in the 1st place, addle is quick and easy to cast, and now that whm has it there is pretty much now no you'll be without unless they are encouring BRD only healers,

which can be possible, but with there base MP pool which there is 0 without a Mp releated SJ, that isn't going to work very well, what was the plan exactly? i mean it's bad enough every single New NM is immune to silence, bind and gravity, are they trying to snuff out the enfeebling phase?

a week ago somone tried to sell me the scroll for 1.5 mil and i told him he was bascily nuts and i ended up spending 100 k on it 3 days later...thank god i was not that stupid..but now even the 100k didnt seem worth it.

[Zhronne]

Yes, I completely forgot WHM got it at 93, that changes a lot of things imho. Takes more of RDM's uniqueness away to give it to a job that honestly didn't need a new enfeeble at all (WHM).

From this point of view only making Nocturne a different element (hence allowing you to stick it on mobs immune to fire) could give it a small amount of usefulness.