[dev1024] - Pining Nocturne

[Zhronne]

I've been asking for a new debuff for BRD for ages, so I'm really happy about Pining Nocture. About the not stacking with Addle... I dunno, it might make sense. A fully well-geared RDM using that JA enhancing the next debuff can bring Addle to really high levels, perhaps too high. Having this stack with Pining Nocture might be a bit too overpowered...
I hope Pining Nocturne will be an element different from Fire, that way you'll be able to put it on NMs that are immune to fire (and hence to Addle).

Only thing that really bothers me atm is the fact that you can't overwrite Pining Nocturne with another Pining Nocturne, i.e. making us unable to refresh it before it expires. Really hope they have changed that in the patch that will go live tonight, or that they will change it in the future.

[Reain]

I've been asking for a new debuff for BRD for ages, so I'm really happy about Pining Nocture. About the not stacking with Addle... I dunno, it might make sense. A fully well-geared RDM using that JA enhancing the next debuff can bring Addle to really high levels, perhaps too high. Having this stack with Pining Nocture might be a bit too overpowered...
I hope Pining Nocturne will be an element different from Fire, that way you'll be able to put it on NMs that are immune to fire (and hence to Addle).

Only thing that really bothers me atm is the fact that you can't overwrite Pining Nocturne with another Pining Nocturne, i.e. making us unable to refresh it before it expires. Really hope they have changed that in the patch that will go live tonight, or that they will change it in the future.

It is fire based, but I was able to stick it 2/2 on Tiamat on the test server. Perhaps the devs didn't update Tiamat to make it immune to nocturne effects yet though. It does seem very accurate. I've stuck it 1/1 on Cerberus, Jormungand and Khimaira also. It didn't stick on turtles.

I've tried testing the potency of Nocturne and it seems to increase spellcasting time by 15%. I'm not too confident in that number though. It's difficult to measure spellcasting time accurately, so take that number with skepticism. I agree that Nocturne should stack with Addle, and it doesn't seem like it would be overpowered.

It bothers me too about not overwriting itself. It's nice that skill affects the duration for stacking with Marcato, but not being able to overwrite Nocturne with a stronger one when you use SV/Marcato seems to be a limitation.

[Cahlum]

SE need to address this as it really does make no sense. Camate where are you!

[Camate]

Camate where are you!

I'm here, I'm here! Sorry it took a bit to get a response.

We received word back from the development team in regards to your question about why Pining Nocturne will not stack with other magic spells.

There have been a lot comments asking why it does not stack when Elegy and Slow, Carol and bar-spells, and Requiem and other DoT spells all stack. However, there are no set rules about what spells and song effects can and cannot be applied at the same time. Each spell and song is decided on a case-by-case basis along with their effects.

For example, the reasoning behind being able to stack Elegy and Slow is that the monster will still be able to use their special abilities so it’s forgivable.

On the other hand, with Nocturne and Addle, since the enemies casting time could be drastically increased, it would become possible to greatly exploit magic-focused enemies in battle.

While it’s fine to have somewhat of an advantage, however, while someone is casting it is not possible to perform any other actions, so prolonging this state is equivalent to making the enemy completely powerless which is why we decided to make the rule that the two spells cannot be stacked.

[Zhronne]

I'm here, I'm here! Sorry it took a bit to get a response.

We received word back from the development team in regards to your question about why Pining Nocturne will not stack with other magic spells.

There have been a lot comments asking why it does not stack when Elegy and Slow, Carol and bar-spells, and Requiem and other DoT spells all stack. However, there are no set rules about what spells and song effects can and cannot be applied at the same time. Each spell and song is decided on a case-by-case basis along with their effects.

For example, the reasoning behind being able to stack Elegy and Slow is that the monster will still be able to use their special abilities so it’s forgivable.

On the other hand, with Nocturne and Addle, since the enemies casting time could be drastically increased, it would become possible to greatly exploit magic-focused enemies in battle.

While it’s fine to have somewhat of an advantage, however, while someone is casting it is not possible to perform any other actions, so prolonging this state is equivalent to making the enemy completely powerless which is why we decided to make the rule that the two spells cannot be stacked.

I'm fine with Pining Nocturne not stacking, I don't see why people have been asking for that so much.
It's pretty clear that if you allow to stack that with a Saboteur-enhanced Addle, you need to reduce the effectivity of both spells for the very same reasons Camate exposed.

There are two things that Pining Nocturne still needs though, a minor and a major.
Major: Currently Pining Nocturne doesn't overwrite itself. I think this is an unique situation within the Bard Job and should be resolved. It makes it particularly annoying to try to refresh the spell on mobs and creates several other issues when used in conjunction with other Bard Job Abilities like Marcato, Soul Voice and Troubadour.
Minor: Atm Pining Nocturne is just an "option" to use when you have no Red Mage, even though Pining Nocturne is weaker than Addle, but that's fine. What developers could and should change in my opinion is the elemental correlation of Pining Nocturne. Currently it's alligned with Fire, same as Addle, meaning that if a target is immune to fire spells, we won't be able to affect it with either Pining Nocturne or Addle. It would add much depth to the game instead if Nocturne was another element, that way on mobs where Red Mages can't stick their Addle, Bards could stick their Nocturne

(not taking into account the fact that White Mages recently got access to Addle too, since they don't have saboteur, nor the gear/traits/skills RDMs do. The fact that WHMs have it as well doesn't change the reasoning behind what I'm trying to say)

[Insaniac]

Major: Currently Pining Nocturne doesn't overwrite itself. I think this is an unique situation within the Bard Job and should be resolved. It makes it particularly annoying to try to refresh the spell on mobs and creates several other issues when used in conjunction with other Bard Job Abilities like Marcato, Soul Voice and Troubadour.

No debuffs in the game that I know of save dia and bio will overwrite themselves.

[Yarly]

No debuffs in the game that I know of save dia and bio will overwrite themselves.

Pretty sure elegy overwrites itself and dia/bio don't overwrite themselves as in casting bio on bio doesn't extend the duration. All you will see is the damage.

[Insaniac]

This is kind of silly and severely limits it's usefulness. Maybe the devs would consider letting the spells stack but not at full potency? Have the 2nd spell cast only add an additional 10-15% casting time? Maybe put a cap of 50% on addle so you couldn't go past the maximum value of a sabo addle from RDM? There has to be a better solution than not stacking at all.

[Rexen]

That makes little to no sense to me. If it's too overpowered to have the song and spell stack why even bother giving it to Bard in the first place? You will almost always have a White Mage or Red Mage as a healer now, so I don't see any logic in it at all.

[Ophannus]

Make RDM more useless please.