Rebalancing and Redesigning Red mage (Suggestion)

[Seriha]

Why would you invite those other jobs for anything, ever?

Different job traits, job abilities, spells, skills, weapon/WS access, and gear more finely tuned to the prior. The Abyssea and Voidwatch proc systems are also another point to why you'd best flesh out your party roster. Regardless, being a "jack" in the MMO world is basically a death sentence for the very reason people try to justify them being not as good. It's no coincidence that the aspect of the job RDM got most shoehorned into technically required no gear to perform passably in the old days. Haste and Refresh were just as potent from a naked 48 RDM as it was the pimpest of 75s. And while we've seen more Cure Potency gear recently, you didn't need to keep the skill up to date and it's not like party members resist it. The job also hit the point where Slow and Para didn't matter because mobs died to fast, and the desired enfeeble, Dia, would always land anyway.

The hypothetically feared doomsday superman RDM can never exist as long as MP is finite and casting/melee aren't so mechanically opposite one another. The ideal should be that with the proper gear, sub, buffs, and food, the truly versatile RDM could step up as their party needs in an acceptable manner. At present, however, things are skewed heavily toward the job's magical aspects. Some are fine with that. Some will argue tooth and nail, belittling those who aren't. Some feel RDM should be a specialist, particularly of the enfeebling variety, but again you'll find those who feel melee integration has no place in that prospect because another job does X (and better!) even though it could yield appropriately powerful debuffs for the added risk. Some try to rationalize dev attention is limited, and that anything not fitting their agenda is a waste, but while things may be spread thin trying to give 20 jobs a little something throughout the cap increases (some definitely getting more than others), that doesn't mean job updates suddenly stop once we hit 99.

In general, people wishing for a more themely, versatile RDM isn't a new development. This isn't 75 anymore and part of the reasons against giving the job attention back then aren't much of a factor anymore. Healing? WHM's unquestionably better and could sub Refresh/Convert if they truly need it. Soloing? Behold numerous other jobs soloing things in Abyssea, or are more mechanically prohibiting like Voidwatch (and the inability to exploit pinning thanks to fight zone limitations). Nuking? Well, BLM and SCH are better by virtue of tiers alone and took advantage of the same exploits in their own solo endeavors. Relative to BLU, RDM can be similar, but still different, just as MNK and WAR are DDs of their own flavor. Not exactly close right now, however, and BLU will be pulling even farther ahead this update. Don't let the DD only types fool you, BLU rocks some solid utility potential.

[InfiniteKarma]

And even in FF5, Red Mages' melee damage pales in comparison to like the dozen other Job options that are more melee-focused.

Also: If RDM ever got even billing to where they could heal on par with WHM, melee on par with (I dunno, not the best example but...) PLD, and nuke on par with BLM...

Why would you invite those other jobs for anything, ever?

A job like RDM by its very design HAS to be worse at everything than a more dedicated job. :\

Because they are Better at what they do(RDM isn't suppose to be better at something or even level[even tho i said on par] its suppose to be slightly below but not far under where its useless] for example:

Random heal example
Cure ??? (both using same spell)
Potency of classes As follows:
Target of healings hp is: 1000
WHM heals for: 700
RDM heals for:450

Mob hits for: 300
Mob hits for:250

Notice how mob hits slightly under the RDM heals but has a consistency. While WHM is the better healer rdm can still step in JUST enough to keep them alive hes not taken the job away from the WHM. WHM still proves that his spot in PT is important anyone would want someone healing for 700 over 450.

I mean you don't see it the way i do and i am not sure if i could explain it any better but if people played RDM the way i explained i don't see why NOT to have one in a party its not about who does better in this case its who can cover the more GROUND and RDM definitely excels in this aspect of the job its not suppose to be better it never will be but what it loses in damage output and cure output it makes up in the sore areas of the PT i would call it the safety of the PT.

Bad case scenario:
When you have people who specialize in a job field and they are KO'd no one is going to cover down on them during a crisis(You just lost your primary expert in that field) that could be fatal in certain situations. BLM, WHM, DD, any of these KO'd in battle and you never had a rdm in the pt the party just lost major ground rdm can fill the slots temporary.

i cant see why not to have one and i am having a hard time understanding why you wouldn't either.

[Harukusan]

Bad case scenario:
When you have people who specialize in a job field and they are KO'd no one is going to cover down on them during a crisis(You just lost your primary expert in that field) that could be fatal in certain situations. BLM, WHM, DD, any of these KO'd in battle and you never had a rdm in the pt the party just lost major ground rdm can fill the slots temporary.

Are you talking about EXP parties or a significant event relevant to today? If this is an Abyssea EXP party, by all means the RDM can step in and swing it's sword with all it's heart. No one cares. I'm not letting my RDM (especially if I'm the RDM) poke at VW NMs when it can fill a much more important role: do it's freaking job!

Think about it like this: We can compare 3 jobs here: RDM, WAR, and BLM. Assume that all physical and magical skills were all in one big mess of a category, that means elemental skill is right next to your dagger skill or whatever (the point is let's ignore the fact that they are physical/magical). A WAR has several weapons to choose from, so why, barring procing situations, does it solely prefer to use a great axe? BLM has many magical capabilities and even has dagger and scythe skills, but typically only utilizes elemental magic (omg no way!). They have enhancing skill, but you don't see them buffing anyone but themselves when they need to. For that matter, why doesn't a MNK DD with a staff? A RDM has sword and dagger skills available to them, does that mean they should utilize this function in any portion of the game that actually matters? Take a moment to think about what I'm going to say... WAR and BLM use their respective skills because they excel at them the most. A RDM's specialty is Enhancing and Enfeebling. While I see that Joyeuse collecting dust in my mog house, I'm never tempted to grab it because I keep myself busy constantly covering the job that I was gifted with. RDM covers the Hasting, the Refreshing, and yes, I still cast Phalanx 2 on the tanks and sometimes DD because my Enhancing skill far exceeds that of every PLD I have ever met by at least 100 levels. I do all the debuffing that allow my party to fight with greater ease. That's the role of a RDM. They make everyone's lives easier. Whether or not some people will recognize it is up to them, and quite frankly they can rot for all I care.

Not everything is immune to RDM, in fact I know this because my NIN sticks debuffs on Abyssean NMs frequently. If NIN can do that, RDM can do that much better.

Just remember this: Every time a RDM picks up a sword, a small child is spontaneously killed by the baby shaking fairy.

[Tashan]

I actually like the OP.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I kill babies every other day then.

[Rearden]

That's what I was thinking aswell.

I was thinking the same.

[Zatias]

I lmfao at your sig Rearden.

Thread derailer.

[InfiniteKarma]

Are you talking about EXP parties or a significant event relevant to today? If this is an Abyssea EXP party, by all means the RDM can step in and swing it's sword with all it's heart. No one cares. I'm not letting my RDM (especially if I'm the RDM) poke at VW NMs when it can fill a much more important role: do it's freaking job!
Think about it like this: We can compare 3 jobs here: RDM, WAR, and BLM. Assume that all physical and magical skills were all in one big mess of a category, that means elemental skill is right next to your dagger skill or whatever (the point is let's ignore the fact that they are physical/magical). A WAR has several weapons to choose from, so why, barring procing situations, does it solely prefer to use a great axe? BLM has many magical capabilities and even has dagger and scythe skills, but typically only utilizes elemental magic (omg no way!). They have enhancing skill, but you don't see them buffing anyone but themselves when they need to. For that matter, why doesn't a MNK DD with a staff? A RDM has sword and dagger skills available to them, does that mean they should utilize this function in any portion of the game that actually matters? Take a moment to think about what I'm going to say... WAR and BLM use their respective skills because they excel at them the most. A RDM's specialty is Enhancing and Enfeebling. While I see that Joyeuse collecting dust in my mog house, I'm never tempted to grab it because I keep myself busy constantly covering the job that I was gifted with. RDM covers the Hasting, the Refreshing, and yes, I still cast Phalanx 2 on the tanks and sometimes DD because my Enhancing skill far exceeds that of every PLD I have ever met by at least 100 levels. I do all the debuffing that allow my party to fight with greater ease. That's the role of a RDM. They make everyone's lives easier. Whether or not some people will recognize it is up to them, and quite frankly they can rot for all I care.Not everything is immune to RDM, in fact I know this because my NIN sticks debuffs on Abyssean NMs frequently. If NIN can do that, RDM can do that much better.

Just remember this: Every time a RDM picks up a sword, a small child is spontaneously killed by the baby shaking fairy.

We make this a part of our job its not our priority though. You are one of people that sees RDMs by the image the game has them labeled on them you want them to specialize in something so you grab a staff and expect to think its a better idea then for this i propose you use WHM/RDM. You are now doing what you described and are expected to pick up a staff nothings changed but now you can rest assure that generally the idea is in the right jobs position. or you can try bard whichever.

This is not its job this its not its function (this doesnt mean dont do what he said) what you are doing is your giving it a one spot purpose it doesnt need to be that way if thats how you play it by all means do so. You just turned a Hybrid class into a Bard or a WHM now threads are going to contain "we need stronger spells in the enhancement department and healing department so we can compete with whms!"

Jack of all trades not grab a staff and do what the general public wants us to do develop your own playstyle.

[InfiniteKarma]

@Harukasan

But i see what your saying i think your biggest mistake is your comparing them.

[cidbahamut]

Just remember this: Every time a RDM picks up a sword, a small child is spontaneously killed by the baby shaking fairy.

This is actually an incentive to start meleeing.