It's time we ask the devs once again. How exactly DOES Treasure Hunter work?

[Melphina]

I know this question has been asked in the past and the devs refused to comment on the details, but a lot has changed over the eight years this game has been around and I think it's time to ask them again. I would like to ask the devs exactly what treasure hunter does.... not with a response that "it makes stuff drop more", but exactly what the different treasure hunter thresholds do.

A lot of the strife revolving around the Thief job is the ambiguity of the drop system and the meaningfulness of our "Treasure Hunter" ability. In fact the drop system itself is a mystery. I have heard people who believed that every item has a specific chance to drop and when a mob dies the game rolls a random number to determine if the item falls based on its drop percentage. They believe that each level of treasure hunter allows a "reroll" of the die, so if an item has a 10% chance of dropping then with Treasure Hunter 7 the game will random up to seven times until either the item is dropped (resolving in the item dropping) or all chances are used up (The item does not drop). A second belief is that each item has a set percentage to drop with no TH and each level of Treasure Hunter increases the actual percentage of the item dropping, but you still get only one roll of the random number generator when the mob dies (in other words if it had a 10% drop rate Treasure Hunter 7 may make it a 40% drop rate)

Players have tried to test treasure hunter for years. We used to think the job traits and equipment bonuses were separate in strength ( TH 1 and TH 2 job traits were commonly accepted to be vastly stronger than TH 3 (knife) or TH4 (Knife + AA), and so players used to say TH4 was actually TH2 + 2, or Treasure hunter 2 job trait plus a 2% bonus (hands and knife each equating to a 1% increase).

Now we are playing under a system where the mob's treasure hunter level is visible in the chat log and we still can't determine how useful higher levels of treasure hunter actually are. As far as the eye can tell there is very little difference in noticeable drop rate between a mob inflicted with Treasure Hunter 6, and a mob with a whopping Treasure Hunter 12. For all we know drop rates have a cap like everything else in this game.

S-E changed the rules of play when they made Treasure Hunter show up in the chat log, but it really hasn't helped the job's image because we have no way to measure what these numbers actually DO. I must reiterate that it is extremely difficult to tell the difference between a mob procced with Treasure Hunter 6 and a mob procced with treasure Hunter 11. It feels as if the entire worth of our job is based on the outcome of a single roll of the dice.

In summary S-E's vision for thief revolves highly around our coveted "Treasure Hunter" ability; so much so that in order to balance this all powerful ability they have nerfed much of our other potentials to preserve balance. If the devs at S-E feel this ability is so powerful and important I think it's fair to ask them for a more clear definition of what the ability specifically does.

[noodles355]

Putting money on them not telling us and the reason they're not telling us is because:
Adding a more significant drop rate to things would unbalance the game.
They dont want to admit it does nothing as thief would lose it's spot in an alliance.

[Babekeke]

It's time we ask the devs once again. How exactly DOES Treasure Hunter work?

Because if we just keep on asking, like a kid asking 'why?' they're bound to listen to us? Oh wait or they might just send us to bed without any supper

[Nebo]

Because if we just keep on asking, like a kid asking 'why?' they're bound to listen to us? Oh wait or they might just send us to bed without any supper

Maybe. But I also think it's time we knew what it does...specifically.

[Scribble]

I still believe that says certain drops remain unaffected by treasure hunter.

I also think they added the spell effect and counter for the sake of thieves being told their TH sucks. Now instead of hanging your head in shame when you don't get dorpz people can see that you did your part stacking it up and they leave you alone about it.

It wouldn't have much (if any) affect other than placebo even if you did know. If a dev were to come on this thread and say 'Each level increase of TH increases drop percentage by .5%' you would still log on tomorrow and try to stack it as high as possible. The same thing you would be doing prior to having this knowledge.

[noodles355]

I still believe that says certain drops remain unaffected by treasure hunter.

That's been proven for years. NMs with 2 different items that share the same drop slot, with one of them dropping 100% is unaffected by treasure hunter. Like Okote, Dring, etc.

[Scribble]

That's been proven for years. NMs with 2 different items that share the same drop slot, with one of them dropping 100% is unaffected by treasure hunter. Like Okote, Dring, etc.

Right. I guess I worded that improperly. I was just pointing out that with the given knowledge and now that we understand exactly what increases the chance of gaining TH levels, we don't really need to know anything else.

We know some items are not affected at all. It's also likely that there are items intended to be more rare that are only affected up to a certain point. It just seems like overkill to me when the general consensus is 'stack it as high as possible for good measure' anyway.

[Vold]

It just seems like overkill to me when the general consensus is 'stack it as high as possible for good measure' anyway.

True, but the biggie infos here that we want to know more than anything is 1)how does TH3 work differently from THII, because it does. It's either gimped or there's some kind of cap on drops in game so it's not gonna work for common drops, and 2)can I just kick my THF to the curb in favor of WAR/THF when I'm farming so I can kill infinitely faster. And #2 is exactly why they'll probably never answer the TH question.

From what I can tell so far, my days of farming TW stuff on THF are over, and is still a go for anything EP or higher. Which is a shame because I enjoy farming old school targets. I enjoy going to beastmen strongholds. I enjoy playing my THF. And when I heard we were getting THIII it was the best news I've had in years. But it's not really THIII. It's more like THII +1-10 and you need +7 and up to see any decent change. Whatever the case may be with the TH system, it's clear to me they restrict it in some form to keep drops in check. Which is fine and dandy but the least we could have got was a THIII boost that was significant enough that we wouldn't be questioning it months after it came into the picture.

My TH6 drop rates aren't much different from THII. So basically 3-6 are next to worthless, making that shiny new THIII trait nothing more than a look at and feel good thing. THIII has the appearance of a Lamborghini but it runs like a Yugo.

Here's some more conspiracy nut math: TH12. 1+2=3. TH12 = real TH3. But since the only time you really see TH12 is in Voidwatch where drop rates are crap, no one is the wiser. Could this be the case? Where they sort of stretched TH out so we could benefit from it but not cause the end of the world on weaker stuff? Who knows.

[noodles355]

I was just pointing out that with the given knowledge and now that we understand exactly what increases the chance of gaining TH levels, we don't really need to know anything else.

Incorrect. We need to know how effective each level is so we can weigh up prolonging the fight to try and proc as high as possible vs just getting TH6 and then killing it quickly and popping another/moving on.

[Melphina]

There are certain things we do know about drop rates. Some item drops are classified into "groups", and some of these "groups" have a 100% chance to load but because there are X items in that group the game will random a second time to pick which of the items loads. Pixie Earring vs. Defending Ring and O-Kotes vs. Impact Knuckles are examples of this because the "slot" these items share loads 100%. Treasure Hunter has no effect on which of the items loads because they have their own drop percent within the pool. Statistically D ring and O kotes percent is very low (in the 5% range), whereas Pixie and Impact knuckles are close to 95%. Thus Treasure Hunter's effect raises the chance of item slots loading which are less than 100%, but has no effect on choosing which item loads when there are multiple items in a "group". In a majority of cases desirable items are less than 100% drop rate and not grouped with other items, so if the slot loads it will always be that item. In these cases the drop rate is typically much lower than 100%. Some notable examples are Loki's Khaftan or Goetia Chain, the second empyrean weapon upgrade item on each mob, and Linen Coinpurses in salvage. Finally in some cases BOTH scenario's are true. An item "slot" has less than 100% chance to load, and comprises a group of several items. Nidhogg's second abjuration is an example of this.

This is the end of our knowledge and from here on everything else is hearsay. As several others have said I am not expecting a straight answer from S-E either, but I believe we have the right to ask so I brought it up. This is something we obviously can't figure out ourselves because the random number generator is too random, and statistical testing requires a vast sample size with no errors in collection (which people will be biased towards even if such a size were collected because it's impossible to prove there were no errors by the individual). If S-E at the very least could throw us a bone I would be happy to have the answers to the following questions.

1: Do item drop rates which are not already 100% have a cap whereupon Treasure Hunter can no longer increase the chance of it dropping? (I have a feeling the answer is yes, but it would be really good to know).

2: Does "Treasure Hunter" work in such a way that it increases the actual PERCENTAGE of an item dropping but the item is only rolled for once, or does Treasure Hunter increase the number of times an item is randomed for but the drop percentage remains unaffected with each successive roll of the die?

At this point even if they don't explain the difference between each tier of treasure hunter I'd be happy if they just answered those two questions. It's kind of sad because these are pretty basic things to want to know, and we will never be able to figure them out without a direct answer from S-E themselves. It's been eight years and S-E has changed their stance on so many things (including raising the level cap). I believe it's time they throw us a bone and change their stance on requiring EVERY aspect of Treasure Hunter's workings to remain a mystery as well. At least tell us SOMETHING more than "increases drop rates".... that's so ambiguous it's mind numbing.