So, no more random WoE coins at all?

[katz]

Like I said before: perhaps you should choose an Empyrean instead if you want to manage time more efficiently.

SE is shaping WoE to be an area where people team up and win chambers to collect loot in the end. Such a system cannot function when you simply want to solo coins in a selfish manner because the disputes over single drops have the potential to destroy the event before any of the positives get a chance to stick.

For lack of a better term, we're looking at Campaign II here. Single coins had to be removed because otherwise you'd have soloists holding up the chamber and denying groups the ability to enter.

Oh wow a group cant wait for a 30 min event to finish.....

[xbobx]

In a dying game, which it is, SE had the right idea to start and change things to focus on smaller groups. they made many changes and they were great. then Bam, woe changes and voidwatch and we back to the beginning again.

Mood swings at SE?

[svengalis]

I hope you're being intentionally obtuse.


As far as woe vs empy. I don't know, but I duo'd probably 50-70% of kannagi with a nin and he had a pretty damn high rate of red procs.

There's only 3 ninja can't do but there was so many times I couldn't do those 3 while solo farming briareus ki!

[Zagen]

In a dying game, which it is, SE had the right idea to start and change things to focus on smaller groups. they made many changes and they were great. then Bam, woe changes and voidwatch and we back to the beginning again.

Mood swings at SE?

How is WoE changing from being small man friendly?

Everything that was proposed was party size (4-6 people) friendly. The only nerf is to the soloers because most of the "soloers" would wait for a group to show up and they'd enter the same zone and focus on getting max points so they placed in the top 5 even though without the group that went in they would have gotten 1-2 coins if that. Some "soloers" who jumped in on a run they weren't needed/wanted also would lot everything not just 1 coin which is the standard for groups going in as a group.

[scaevola]

How is WoE changing from being small man friendly?

Everything that was proposed was party size (4-6 people) friendly. The only nerf is to the soloers because most of the "soloers" would wait for a group to show up and they'd enter the same zone and focus on getting max points so they placed in the top 5 even though without the group that went in they would have gotten 1-2 coins if that. Some "soloers" who jumped in on a run they weren't needed/wanted also would lot everything not just 1 coin which is the standard for groups going in as a group.

Assuming for the sake of argument that you're correct, the rest of the proposed changes deal with this whether random coin drops are available or not; the group and the soloer are no longer in competition to place, so they're free to work together or completely ignore each other. Soloer gets his clear and his chest, group gets some extra damage they wouldn't have had otherwise. The presence or absence of coins doesn't change this.

The irony of removing coin drops to get rid of "leeches" is that it will only encourage people to scout out other peoples' group runs even harder, because not only will it be the only way to get coins on something resembling your own schedule (why waste your time making a run of your own when you can just /sea who's in WoE and horn in on somebody else's when they happen to be there?) but auto-reraise + removal of placing = just let them do the meaningful work while you stay out of the way and beat on some random insignificant mob to qualify.

[Zagen]

Assuming for the sake of argument that you're correct, the rest of the proposed changes deal with this whether random coin drops are available or not; the group and the soloer are no longer in competition to place, so they're free to work together or completely ignore each other. Soloer gets his clear and his chest, group gets some extra damage they wouldn't have had otherwise. The presence or absence of coins doesn't change this.

The irony of removing coin drops to get rid of "leeches" is that it will only encourage people to scout out other peoples' group runs even harder, because not only will it be the only way to get coins on something resembling your own schedule (why waste your time making a run of your own when you can just /sea who's in WoE and horn in on somebody else's when they happen to be there?) but auto-reraise + removal of placing = just let them do the meaningful work while you stay out of the way and beat on some random insignificant mob to qualify.

You're assuming killing 1 mob or dicking around with it til the group wins is going to be enough to qualify.

[scaevola]

Yes, I am. If I'm wrong, the soloers will do enough to qualify.

You're being intentionally obtuse again.

[Zagen]

Yes, I am. If I'm wrong, the soloers will do enough to qualify.

You're being intentionally obtuse again.

And if that requires doing enough to help the group that is organized then it made the change work for the better, if it doesn't then it didn't help. The difference is I'm not assuming one way or the other not being obtuse.

[scaevola]

I think the ideal situation is a well-organized group of like 5 dudes that attract 10 more NIN/DNCs and DNC/NINs capable of hitting things and not dying. If that happens, this update will be a resounding success!

I'm not that optimistic!

[Sparthos]

I do use my time efficiently. That efficiency is reflected in the myriad, shifting tasks that demand my attention on a daily basis. FFXI gets some of the time left over. If you don't think that's the best way to go about living one's life on a busy schedule, by all means reveal yourself.

Spare us all the RL card, it scores you no points here.

This is not to say I have no time to play, mind you; some days I play quite a lot. Maybe even 3 or 4 hours! I cannot, however, predict when those days will be, and I would naturally feel guilty about subjecting others (some of whom I might actually even like!) to such unreliability. So I don't, I'm satisfied with the situation, and my desire for an Empyrean weapon skill is not anywhere near great enough to get me to change it. If this change goes live I'll finish up the weapon I'm currently working on beforehand (23/30, baby) and resume worrying about pixels and polygons as much as I usually do, which is to say not very much.

This is an online multiplayer game and thus if you know time is an issue for you, perhaps scuttling 1-2 Carabosse per day until you finish is the best course of action however as it stands, WoE is currently a failure of an event. Naturally, SE is attempting to address that with this oncoming patch.

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few.

Before jumping to the conclusion that the event is ruined for you, at least acknowledge the fact that popularity may surge and this event could become similar to Campaign where people team up to clear chambers due to the individual loot system making everyone who walks out a winner.

That said, since May's addition of KIs to gold chests I've really started to run out of things to work towards, so I confess the loss of this as a realistic solo goal stings a bit more right now than it will a month after I quit FFXI for lack of things to do.

If I could divine some sort of reason for this change, I'd be more than willing to accept it with a shrug and move on. It is, however, as puzzling as it is disappointing, so I didn't consider it a complete waste of time to make a thread to 1) ask for confirmation, and 2) perhaps fish for a CM comment regarding the rationale. Is that fair?

I dont see how you can't analyze why this change is being made.

WoE failed and the only people who use the event are soloists and linkshells who are bored with XI and want something other than Abyssea to do. As it stands, the community teamwork ideal SE wanted pushed in this event is non-existent.

The "new" WoE encourages teamups and removes many of the issues that would make people wary of joining a PUG. You have instant RR, personal chests upon winning and the removal of single drops eliminates squabbling among the group or soloists holding up the chamber for their own selfish gains. The idea is to team up with people (this is an online multiplayer game afterall) and accomplish the challenges as they come.

Perfect for the low time investment individual you profess yourself to be.

Now we've established that, the last component is demand. If SE adds enough items to keep people going, the event will maintain itself as people /sh, group up and run strats for this Campaign 2.0. Failure means everyone loses out so much like Besieged, leaders will rise and guide the newbies on the best path to victory. Who knows - it could turn out to be something worth doing and an event that unifies the community rather than what we've had in Abyssea.

The event could go from a barren wasteland where people solo coins ad infinitum to a community oriented, low risk, high reward arena where casuals rule and the iron grip of HNM shells is broken. Is this not what the casual community wanted?