Anyone try Apoc/RR/SS?

[Dfoley]

The biggest problem with pet sc'ing is this:
1) Its worthless inside abyssea
1.a) You cant use it on exp mobs, they die before it goes off
1.b) you wont use it on +1/+2 mobs cause the mobs at 40-60 % before all procs go off, and even then you are usually on blm/brd/blu/whm/mnk/war
1.c) If your using rr/ss/apoc or rr/gh/apoc neither you or your pet will have tp, you have to use SD or VV which means you have slightly less dps for everything else

2) Outside of abyssea its incredibly useful if you get it to go off, but currently for me its about 3 of my ws before the pet is ready and even then on an exp mob, its dead from either my ws or the pets ws.

3) Which leaves you voidwatch, a situation where your pet is more likely to die from ae then get the tp to ws skill chain, and add in the 15+ other people spamming ws at the same time, you will never get that skill chain off.


TLDNR:
Skill chain is good, and nice for epeen numbers but unless we get a sam type ability to 'force' a pet ws even without 100tp 1 time every 5 minutes, its too hard/wasteful 95% of the time to even bother trying for them.

[xiozen]

The biggest problem with pet sc'ing is this:1) Its worthless inside abyssea

Perhaps for you its worthless---depending on your play style---not all play styles are created equal.

1.a) You cant use it on exp mobs, they die before it goes off 1.c) If your using rr/ss/apoc or rr/gh/apoc neither you or your pet will have tp, you have to use SD or VV which means you have slightly less dps for everything else

Perhaps for you, exp mobs have died before a SC went off--but I've seem a number of factors play into this:

1. The weapon you are using (empy weapons may cause too much dmg (per swing) for the lower tier mobs, however after a while and once the abyssea mobs have "leveled" they tend to become much more resistant to dps, increasing the chances to skill chain for a set-up not geared for it (because they won't die as quickly) and much more often for a set-up that is geared for it...(since dps goes down, chances for tp build go up...increasing chances to skill chain between pet and master = eg. darkness)
2. How your automaton is geared (attachments used...if using Heat Capacitor then TP may not be as far off as you make it seem for the automaton) in addition to using a non-empy (multi-hit-from personal experience) weapon..lower dps, but greater tp regain.

2) Outside of abyssea its incredibly useful if you get it to go off, but currently for me its about 3 of my ws before the pet is ready and even then on an exp mob, its dead from either my ws or the pets ws.

Nothing for me to say here... btw, this is probably the first statement I've seen in your posts where you apply something based on your personal experience---I have to give you credit for it.. Nicely stated.

3) Which leaves you voidwatch, a situation where your pet is more likely to die from aoe then get the tp to ws skill chain, and add in the 15+ other people spamming ws at the same time, you will never get that skill chain off.

I agree completely with this statement... the prayer... HOPE... is that SE's revamping of attachments will allow our automatons to be as resilient as avatars and bst pets, which, in my personal experience, LAST A LOT longer and can TANK/HOLD these voidwatch NMs long enough until the party/alliance tanks have recovered in emergency scenarios. Which translates into they don't die in 5 - 7 melee hits and can take a few hard hitting TP moves...

TLDNR:
Skill chain is good, and nice for epeen numbers but unless we get a sam type ability to 'force' a pet ws even without 100tp 1 time every 5 minutes, its too hard/wasteful 95% of the time to even bother trying for them.

Sorry can't agree with you based on the above... but again, we're talking PLAYSTYLE, which includes weapon, automaton, attachments, equipment, atma, mobs...etc etc etc...

[Dfoley]

Okay add this disclaimer to my previous post xiozen, sense apparently its understood that of your posts are from your personal experience, but for some reason you think mine cover all pups...:

• Assuming you have VS/SP
• Assuming you macro a decent WS set (+50 ~65 str)
• Assuming you use rr/ss/apoc, rr/vv/apoc, rr/gh/apoc (all will give very closer numbers)
• If you sub war and keep temp item buffs/berserk up
• If you use atk food (curry, bison steak, pizza...something)

Then you will:

1. mostly be 1 shoting mobs (atk should hover around 750-900 with + 100~150 str on WS)
2. Very rarely get to SC with your pet (not saying never), since your pet will be doing 2300-2600 armor shatters if you geared it as mentioned above which is still possible to skill chain off of. VE however will be in the 3.5k range and chances are vs/sp will kill the mob before the SC goes off. The mob must have at least 1 hp and no one mut auto attack after VS/SP otherwise it wont proc the skill chain.

Empy weapon is only 5 more base dmg than the weapon you use, and if you are using SP with the right atma, than it should be doing very comparable ws and TP dmg.

However:

• If you are sub ninja/dnc
• If you are using inferior DD atma (yes you can use SD to skill chain more, but each ws also does less dmg)
• If you are gearing the pet to tank instead of DD
• If you tp/ws in an evasion set
• If you do not macro a ws set
• If you are not using atk food
• If you never use temp items in abyssea

Then yes, xiozen, you are correct. You will be able to skill chain much easier and will be able to do with 2 weapon skills+skill chain what you could be doing with one single weapon skill.

When i first started with Verethragna I scoffed at people who said they average 5k VS. Then i started keeping berk up, using food and temp item...and guess what I can VS up to 6.6k now on pup. Average exp mob has about 5-6k hp at IT, so even if I ws for the 3.8k range there is no SC off that when my pet does a 2300 dmg ws.

I am not trying to diss peoples gear/play styles. I am just saying that if you are going for a high DD play styles (which is most pups I have met), then what I have said above is true.

[xiozen]

Okay add this disclaimer to my previous post xiozen, sense apparently its understood that of your posts are from your personal experience, but for some reason you think mine cover all pups...:

• Assuming you have VS/SP
• Assuming you macro a decent WS set (+50 ~65 str)
• Assuming you use rr/ss/apoc, rr/vv/apoc, rr/gh/apoc (all will give very closer numbers)
• If you sub war and keep temp item buffs/berserk up
• If you use atk food (curry, bison steak, pizza...something)

Then you will:

1. mostly be 1 shoting mobs (atk should hover around 750-900 with + 100~150 str on WS)
2. Very rarely get to SC with your pet (not saying never), since your pet will be doing 2300-2600 armor shatters if you geared it as mentioned above which is still possible to skill chain off of. VE however will be in the 3.5k range and chances are vs/sp will kill the mob before the SC goes off. The mob must have at least 1 hp and no one mut auto attack after VS/SP otherwise it wont proc the skill chain.

Empy weapon is only 5 more base dmg than the weapon you use, and if you are using SP with the right atma, than it should be doing very comparable ws and TP dmg.

However:

• If you are sub ninja/dnc
• If you are using inferior DD atma (yes you can use SD to skill chain more, but each ws also does less dmg)
• If you are gearing the pet to tank instead of DD
• If you tp/ws in an evasion set
• If you do not macro a ws set
• If you are not using atk food
• If you never use temp items in abyssea

Then yes, xiozen, you are correct. You will be able to skill chain much easier and will be able to do with 2 weapon skills+skill chain what you could be doing with one single weapon skill.

When i first started with Verethragna I scoffed at people who said they average 5k VS. Then i started keeping berk up, using food and temp item...and guess what I can VS up to 6.6k now on pup. Average exp mob has about 5-6k hp at IT, so even if I ws for the 3.8k range there is no SC off that when my pet does a 2300 dmg ws.

I am not trying to diss peoples gear/play styles. I am just saying that if you are going for a high DD play styles (which is most pups I have met), then what I have said above is true.

Well said and makes perfect sense... you state your points very well here. I wholeheartedly agree with all of it!!! Thx! =)