Anyone try Apoc/RR/SS?

[xiozen]

I thought everyone know SS was Sanguine Scythe lol.

What gave you that thought? "everyone know SS was Sanguine Scythe"?... <.<''

I don't have Sanguine Scythe primarily because, in my opinion my critical hit dmg is maxed using Razed Ruins + merits in critical hit... since Sanguine Scythe's only other benefit is +hpts and a minor +enmity, you'll gain more mileage using Apoc/Razed and another atma which either gives you a greater tp regain effect/regen effect or double attack effect.

So I use the following (situational at best depending on mob):

Razed Ruins/Sea Daughter/Voracious Violet (if I don't need a huge boost to evasion) or
Razed Ruins/Sea Daughter/Siren Shadow (if I do need a huge boost to evasion) or
Razed Ruins/Sea Daughter/Ducal Guard (if I want my Automaton to tank w/ me assisting)

I typically only use Apocalypse if I know there's a high chance of being K.O'd.

[Dfoley]

What gave you that thought? "everyone know SS was Sanguine Scythe"?... <.<''

I don't have Sanguine Scythe primarily because, in my opinion my critical hit dmg is maxed using Razed Ruins + merits in critical hit... since Sanguine Scythe's only other benefit is +hpts and a minor +enmity, you'll gain more mileage using Apoc/Razed and another atma which either gives you a greater tp regain effect/regen effect or double attack effect.

So I use the following (situational at best depending on mob):

Razed Ruins/Sea Daughter/Voracious Violet (if I don't need a huge boost to evasion) or
Razed Ruins/Sea Daughter/Siren Shadow (if I do need a huge boost to evasion) or
Razed Ruins/Sea Daughter/Ducal Guard (if I want my Automaton to tank w/ me assisting)

I typically only use Apocalypse if I know there's a high chance of being K.O'd.

Lets go with: "everyone who does DD knows that SS is sanguine scythe"

1) your critical hit rate isnt caped, its probably at 66-70% out of 100
2) SS adds critical hit dmg. caped at 100% now and you are probably at 30% with just RR since almost not pup gear or merits add to it
3) you should never use sea daughter unless you are just procing red/blue on mobs, inwhich case you shouldn't be on pup anyways. You should be on monk, nin, war with vv/sea daughters/sundering or some similar combination.

Ideally you want 100% crit and 100% crit dmg, the question bob is asking is does 30% crit dmg out weigh 10% DA with 2 regain.

I am coming out with the following using kinematics pup spread sheet, which I dont know if it corrects for the new 100% cap, but even if it doesnt, ss still wins.

ss/rr/apoc : 273
vv/rr/apoc : 269
gh/rr/apoc : 266

[xiozen]

Lets go with: "everyone who does DD knows that SS is sanguine scythe"

1) your critical hit rate isnt caped, its probably at 66-70% out of 100
2) SS adds critical hit dmg. caped at 100% now and you are probably at 30% with just RR since almost not pup gear or merits add to it
3) you should never use sea daughter unless you are just procing red/blue on mobs, inwhich case you shouldn't be on pup anyways. You should be on monk, nin, war with vv/sea daughters/sundering or some similar combination.

Ideally you want 100% crit and 100% crit dmg, the question bob is asking is does 30% crit dmg out weigh 10% DA with 2 regain.

I am coming out with the following using kinematics pup spread sheet, which I dont know if it corrects for the new 100% cap, but even if it doesnt, ss still wins.

ss/rr/apoc : 273
vv/rr/apoc : 269
gh/rr/apoc : 266

So you would sacrifice +5 or +7 tp regain on both you and your automaton, in addition to (during daytime only) +30 regen effect on both you and your automaton for a pretty low triple attack effect? (because that's pretty much all your getting with melee using Apoc)?

Speaking from experience, not using Sea Daughter (which also means decreasing the number of darkness skill-chains), is seriously gimping your damage output. It all comes down to personal choice.

And since I don't use Sanguine Scythe, I'd be speaking out of turn to reflect on it...so kudos to those that do use it.

[Zhronne]

for a pretty low triple attack effect?

It's not "pretty low", it's actually pretty high. 15% is a very good number and don't forget as a Martial artist you get double the chances to proc it on each attack turn. That is 15% for left fist and 15% for right fist, on each attack round.

[Kristal]

It's not "pretty low", it's actually pretty high. 15% is a very good number and don't forget as a Martial artist you get double the chances to proc it on each attack turn. That is 15% for left fist and 15% for right fist, on each attack round.

Not to mention the pet gets it too, as well as weaponskills like Victory Smite and Stringing Pummel.

[xiozen]

It's not "pretty low", it's actually pretty high. 15% is a very good number and don't forget as a Martial artist you get double the chances to proc it on each attack turn. That is 15% for left fist and 15% for right fist, on each attack round.

Sorry but it is very low for... for a "slow" effect... and it's not 15%, its less than 12%

[Zhronne]

Sorry but it is very low for... for a "slow" effect... and it's not 15%, its less than 12%

The 15% in my post, which you have quoted, refers to the "Triple Attack" bonus that "Atma of Apocalypse" provides to each of your (and your automaton's) fists on each attack turn.

Concerning the "Slow" effect on Atma of the Sea Daughter it was supposed to be approximately 15%, but even if we were talking about 10% it would still be a very large amount.
Again, I'm afraid you're not yet fully grasping the full exent of the power that comes from the "Haste" stat within the game mechanics of Final Fantasy XI, so I kindly invite you once more to read the very nice and explicative thread which I linked to you in one of my previous posts.

[SpankWustler]

Sea Daughter has a little under +15% slow on it, which you're neglecting to mention. If you're not a Ranger or Corsair, it's not your friend. It is, in fact, your enemy. Your mortal enemy.

[xiozen]

Sea Daughter has a little under +15% slow on it, which you're neglecting to mention. If you're not a Ranger or Corsair, it's not your friend. It is, in fact, your enemy. Your mortal enemy.

The Slow effect is negligible; considering the bonuses involved. I suggest to anyone that "doesn't" have it; give it a spin and see if it works for you.

[SpankWustler]

The Slow effect is negligible; considering the bonuses involved. I suggest to anyone that "doesn't" have it; give it a spin and see if it works for you.

Feel free to do what you want to yourself and your automaton, but please refrain from spreading misinformation when providing advice. It's ~15% Slow and that's ~15% less damage. That's a huge drawback which you didn't even see fit to mention.

Well, unless that mysterious hidden effect on Animator +1 is to negate all negative effects of Atma.