Anyone try Apoc/RR/SS?

[Dfoley]

Okay add this disclaimer to my previous post xiozen, sense apparently its understood that of your posts are from your personal experience, but for some reason you think mine cover all pups...:

• Assuming you have VS/SP
• Assuming you macro a decent WS set (+50 ~65 str)
• Assuming you use rr/ss/apoc, rr/vv/apoc, rr/gh/apoc (all will give very closer numbers)
• If you sub war and keep temp item buffs/berserk up
• If you use atk food (curry, bison steak, pizza...something)

Then you will:

1. mostly be 1 shoting mobs (atk should hover around 750-900 with + 100~150 str on WS)
2. Very rarely get to SC with your pet (not saying never), since your pet will be doing 2300-2600 armor shatters if you geared it as mentioned above which is still possible to skill chain off of. VE however will be in the 3.5k range and chances are vs/sp will kill the mob before the SC goes off. The mob must have at least 1 hp and no one mut auto attack after VS/SP otherwise it wont proc the skill chain.

Empy weapon is only 5 more base dmg than the weapon you use, and if you are using SP with the right atma, than it should be doing very comparable ws and TP dmg.

However:

• If you are sub ninja/dnc
• If you are using inferior DD atma (yes you can use SD to skill chain more, but each ws also does less dmg)
• If you are gearing the pet to tank instead of DD
• If you tp/ws in an evasion set
• If you do not macro a ws set
• If you are not using atk food
• If you never use temp items in abyssea

Then yes, xiozen, you are correct. You will be able to skill chain much easier and will be able to do with 2 weapon skills+skill chain what you could be doing with one single weapon skill.

When i first started with Verethragna I scoffed at people who said they average 5k VS. Then i started keeping berk up, using food and temp item...and guess what I can VS up to 6.6k now on pup. Average exp mob has about 5-6k hp at IT, so even if I ws for the 3.8k range there is no SC off that when my pet does a 2300 dmg ws.

I am not trying to diss peoples gear/play styles. I am just saying that if you are going for a high DD play styles (which is most pups I have met), then what I have said above is true.

[xiozen]

Okay add this disclaimer to my previous post xiozen, sense apparently its understood that of your posts are from your personal experience, but for some reason you think mine cover all pups...:

• Assuming you have VS/SP
• Assuming you macro a decent WS set (+50 ~65 str)
• Assuming you use rr/ss/apoc, rr/vv/apoc, rr/gh/apoc (all will give very closer numbers)
• If you sub war and keep temp item buffs/berserk up
• If you use atk food (curry, bison steak, pizza...something)

Then you will:

1. mostly be 1 shoting mobs (atk should hover around 750-900 with + 100~150 str on WS)
2. Very rarely get to SC with your pet (not saying never), since your pet will be doing 2300-2600 armor shatters if you geared it as mentioned above which is still possible to skill chain off of. VE however will be in the 3.5k range and chances are vs/sp will kill the mob before the SC goes off. The mob must have at least 1 hp and no one mut auto attack after VS/SP otherwise it wont proc the skill chain.

Empy weapon is only 5 more base dmg than the weapon you use, and if you are using SP with the right atma, than it should be doing very comparable ws and TP dmg.

However:

• If you are sub ninja/dnc
• If you are using inferior DD atma (yes you can use SD to skill chain more, but each ws also does less dmg)
• If you are gearing the pet to tank instead of DD
• If you tp/ws in an evasion set
• If you do not macro a ws set
• If you are not using atk food
• If you never use temp items in abyssea

Then yes, xiozen, you are correct. You will be able to skill chain much easier and will be able to do with 2 weapon skills+skill chain what you could be doing with one single weapon skill.

When i first started with Verethragna I scoffed at people who said they average 5k VS. Then i started keeping berk up, using food and temp item...and guess what I can VS up to 6.6k now on pup. Average exp mob has about 5-6k hp at IT, so even if I ws for the 3.8k range there is no SC off that when my pet does a 2300 dmg ws.

I am not trying to diss peoples gear/play styles. I am just saying that if you are going for a high DD play styles (which is most pups I have met), then what I have said above is true.

Well said and makes perfect sense... you state your points very well here. I wholeheartedly agree with all of it!!! Thx! =)

[Dfoley]

And yes, /gasp. I just recommended a situation where you can use SD and gave an example of why...see, it wasn't that hard!


Edit; also jar...wtf is up with your picture.

I thought it looked like some fat guy strangleing himself with a chord before i realized that it wasnt arm fat it was the chair, and that chord was the stick figure itself...

now i am gonna forever picture the fat guy with the chord :-(

[Zhronne]

Nice, these lasts posts from you people are more in line with what my experiences have been. I thought I was the only one having issues in using SCs everytime

[xbobx]

Funny I never have problems matching TP with me and puppet and constantly spamming SC at around 100-120 tp. And it is incredibly useful in abyessa, I am shocked people would say it wasn't. With my group fighting emp and +2 mobs we constantly doing dark. Between Nin emp ws, Dagger , pummel and Shredder , I wouldnt doubt on some of the mobs we hitting 20k in damage just in skillchain dark damage. Mobs have been going down very fast.

[Jar]

some ppl just dont know how to position for AoE =/ all so self Skill chaining is the shit in Dyna, einherjar, limbus, and empyrean farming(you know when green doesnt matter <3).

[Zhronne]

Follow up for Theytak and Dfoley.
So, finally got a chance to play a bit with my PUP yesterday (or 2 days ago? Forgot sorry ).
The sample is still very small, but good enough to start talking I guess. I got around 100k xp (a bit more probably) and killed ~150 monsters.

Tried a good mix of SP and VS, but SP managed to pull better numbers than VS only a few times, like 2 or 3? Wrote it down at home. Not talking about averages here, talking about max damage.
Vsmite got up to 4,3k once, it was of course usually staying much lower, but it was always above SP except those mentioned couple of times.

This is the "strange behaviour" I was talking about a few pages ago. Looking at my spreadsheet I can see well that aside from a few strange setups, Pummel should perform always better than Vsmite (altough the difference is small), but when I go and use it on the field, Vsmite is always above Pummel.

Dunno, anybody want to make up more hypothesys? Want to see my gear? (altough it's nothing special, really)

[Jar]

Follow up for Theytak and Dfoley.
So, finally got a chance to play a bit with my PUP yesterday (or 2 days ago? Forgot sorry ).
The sample is still very small, but good enough to start talking I guess. I got around 100k xp (a bit more probably) and killed ~150 monsters.

Tried a good mix of SP and VS, but SP managed to pull better numbers than VS only a few times, like 2 or 3? Wrote it down at home. Not talking about averages here, talking about max damage.
Vsmite got up to 4,3k once, it was of course usually staying much lower, but it was always above SP except those mentioned couple of times.

This is the "strange behaviour" I was talking about a few pages ago. Looking at my spreadsheet I can see well that aside from a few strange setups, Pummel should perform always better than Vsmite (altough the difference is small), but when I go and use it on the field, Vsmite is always above Pummel.

Dunno, anybody want to make up more hypothesys? Want to see my gear? (altough it's nothing special, really)

accuracy its always acc

[Zhronne]

I'm not talking of missed hits of course, I can see that from the TP return. I think I never took into account WS numbers where I missed 1 or more hits (altough it happened only a couple of times, really, on those mobs I'm probably at the 95% acc cap)

Dunno why you took up the Accuracy argument. Maybe I gave the impression I wasn't considering missed hits in my very small and simple test? Sorry if that's the case, hope I clarified the situation now D:

[Jar]

on avrg you will miss more hits with SP and with ftp so close even that lowers avrg


also from what your posting you eyeballed it