[dev1024] New SCH Spells

[Siiri]

In other words Zell wants to totally break scholar and overpower it vs. black mage. Got it. The math has already been done to show how over powered t2 storms would be. All black mages have right now on scholar is their ga spells, and now scholars are crying to take those too.

[zell_]

id like to see that information. and as for the rest of your post, i guess everyone has an opinion.

[Ank]

The math has already been done to show how over powered t2 storms would be.

Yeah a blm with storm2 on him would be pretty amazing.

[Raksha]

All black mages have right now on scholar is their ga spells, and now scholars are crying to take those too.

That's funny, I dont recall my LS leaders saying "Well since we don't need AoEs, all you BLMS switch to SCH."

If you think all BLM has on SCH is AoEs then you're doing it wrong.

[Merton9999]

id like to see that information. and as for the rest of your post, i guess everyone has an opinion.

It's pretty much just tier II storm + Obi + Twilight cape is 30% boost to damage multiplied on top of the gear bonus.

Incidentally, when it's criticized as overpowered it assumes SCH can somehow magically have the right weather on for free for every nuke, without the extra 48 MP per element and casting time to apply it. By the time I've applied it and cast my first nuke the BLM already has two off with his ridiculous elemental magic casting time.

Realistically, it will do more to benefit the BLM in my party with his FIVE powerful nukes of the same element compared to my two, three if you count helix. Also, has anyone seen the BLM AF3+2? I think we can throw the OP nuke problem out the window, and personally I already have since we've had atmas that double nuking power and are heading into Meteor and level 99 with only an odd Kaustra every two hours to compare >.>

I play BLM too and love it. I wouldn't want my SCH to replace it. And I'm not at all worried it would, manifestationable nukes and tier II storms included. It's not the SCHs crying, it's the few BLMs that are still bitter about not getting the inivitation to the bird party while the rest of us enjoyed our uninterrupted place in end game.

[Miitan]

SE just hates SCH basically.

We're either a sub-standard WHM or a sub-standard BLM and sure, having 2-hour spells is 'unique', it means we're useful once every 2 hours after which we're replacable with a WHM or BLM and once we all hit 99, BLM will get Hailstorm from sub, thus rendering yet another unique aspect of SCH moot.

I used to love Scholar and played it all the time at 75, now I'm on BLM for everything.

[SpankWustler]

In other words Zell wants to totally break scholar and overpower it vs. black mage. Got it. The math has already been done to show how over powered t2 storms would be. All black mages have right now on scholar is their ga spells, and now scholars are crying to take those too.

I heard this old Chinese proverb proverb once. There was this number. This guy didn't understand numbers, so he was afraid of it and angry with it. One day, someone else handed the fearful, angry dude an abacus and he came to understand the number. He eventually understood the number, and no longer feared or raged against it. He understood the number. The dude was happy. The number was happy. The abacus was happy, too.

Moving on, I'm sure Scholar will get lots of new spells!

Adloquium II! It will give 1.5 TP a tick, but it won't be compatible with Ascension because that would be overpowered!

Klimaform II! It will have a six minute recast to prevent balance issues!

Assidere! The long awaited brown magic! It can remove any status ailment, but only works in outdoor areas!

[Sotek]

In other words Zell wants to totally break scholar and overpower it vs. black mage. Got it. The math has already been done to show how over powered t2 storms would be. All black mages have right now on scholar is their ga spells, and now scholars are crying to take those too.

I must have missed the part where Scholar was asking for -ja spells. Manifestation on nukes is something that is already happening, so get the hell over it. It's not even something I wanted or would even consider for Scholar, but SE has already said they're planning it. Seems stupid to pretend it's going to tip the scales in Scholars favor though.
Blizzaja already out damages our fucking two hour spell, even if I could use Manifestation on Blizzard V, it's not going to out damage Blizzaja and Black Mage/Scholar can turn right around an Manifestation Blizzard V right after Blizzaja while I'll be stuck with Blizzard IV and then waiting forever for the recast on Blizzard V. Scholar would have -agas in the most pathetic sense compared to Black Mage - heck, Zell would limit Manifestation to tier I to IV and that's even more balanced, so I in no way see how he'd be suggesting anything that could break Scholar.

As for Storm IIs, you are aware they're not single target only, right? Heck even if they were there's Accession. If you play with people so pig headed about their own damage that they'd sooner offer themselves a 30% damage increase rather than offering the party a 60%-180% damage increase (depending on how many Black Mages are present), then simply stop playing with the morons. Considering how weak magic damage is compared to regular DD damage, I wouldn't turn my nose at any magic damage boost.
Black Mage verses Scholar? The winner is Samurai regardless.
Unless the situation absolutely requires magic damage, both jobs lose out. And the only situations I can think of are:
-aga, which Black Mage will always win in regardless of any Manifestation adjustments.
Raw damage, which Black Mage still wins at.
Survivability, Manawall and Enmity Douse.
Stagger procs, you guessed it, Black Mage.

MP efficiency is the only thing Scholar can win out on (and that's only if for some god awful reason they're using Parsimony in which case their damage will never match up to Black Mages), and even outside Abyssea that seems less important. There's plenty of new Refresh gear, Refresh II and Ballad III, not to mention gear that enhances both of them - that and battles are no where near as long as they once were so things like MP efficiency and enmity control (and no that doesn't debunk Enmity Douse, it's directed at Libra/Animus if anything) are far less important.

[Siiri]

Math taken from Economizer in the healing thread: This is his post.

"Tier 2 storm spells would already be overpowered enough as is, without giving them more overpowered BS on top of it. If you want storm spells to make people absorb the element, it should definitely be a separate spell, at the least. Doubling Stormsurge would be fine however.

Here are what weather effects give, assuming you are wearing an elemental obi:

10% for magic of the day
10% for magic matching single weather
25% for magic matching double weather
35% for magic matching double weather and day

This is also in addition to the 5% boost given by the Twilight Cape. Note that these bonuses stack with other bonuses multiplicatively and ignore caps.

A Scholar with a perfect cure potency set can reach 38% outside Abyssea, and 50% inside. With single weather effects from the Korin Obi and the Twilight Cape, this becomes 58% outside, and 72% inside. If these boosts were double weather, they would be 79% and 95%, respectively. Ignoring the mini-expansion equipment, double weather would still get a respectable 69% outside Abyssea. It gets worse when you consider elemental nukes, which many Scholars consider to be pretty balanced.

Perhaps this wouldn't be as bad if SE also adjusted the levels at which Scholar gets Thunderstorm, Voidstorm, and Aurorastorm to subable levels, but as is, the boost means that in lowman situations, the only thing protecting older jobs from being obsoleted is the ability to proc for Black Mage, or the presence of of a single spell for White Mage. "

I personally have ever only known 1 good scholar. He did share storms. The only other person I knew on scholar was one of the "Scholar is so much better than black mage types." We had a challenge on Mt. Z at lvl 75. He only ice storm himself, I still smoked him though. His first blizzard IV was for 800 lol. Most scholars are garbage. Every one I talk to, with the exception of my linkshell scholar, is obsessed with out damaging black mage. It is even someone's signature of a regular poster in these threads. Plus the trolls on another forum are already starting with the bliz 5 screenshots from the test server, saying, "Hai guys we just obsoleted black mage" etc.

I wish scholar got more original stuff. I wish they would want to learn how to play the job completely instead of being black mage jr. , but lets face it, that is what most of them want. Or to be black mage ++ in their minds.

[Raksha]

Math taken from Economizer in the healing thread: This is his post.

"Tier 2 storm spells would already be overpowered enough as is, without giving them more overpowered BS on top of it. If you want storm spells to make people absorb the element, it should definitely be a separate spell, at the least. Doubling Stormsurge would be fine however.

Here are what weather effects give, assuming you are wearing an elemental obi:

10% for magic of the day
10% for magic matching single weather
25% for magic matching double weather
35% for magic matching double weather and day

This is also in addition to the 5% boost given by the Twilight Cape. Note that these bonuses stack with other bonuses multiplicatively and ignore caps.

A Scholar with a perfect cure potency set can reach 38% outside Abyssea, and 50% inside. With single weather effects from the Korin Obi and the Twilight Cape, this becomes 58% outside, and 72% inside. If these boosts were double weather, they would be 79% and 95%, respectively. Ignoring the mini-expansion equipment, double weather would still get a respectable 69% outside Abyssea. It gets worse when you consider elemental nukes, which many Scholars consider to be pretty balanced.

Perhaps this wouldn't be as bad if SE also adjusted the levels at which Scholar gets Thunderstorm, Voidstorm, and Aurorastorm to subable levels, but as is, the boost means that in lowman situations, the only thing protecting older jobs from being obsoleted is the ability to proc for Black Mage, or the presence of of a single spell for White Mage. "

I personally have ever only known 1 good scholar. He did share storms. The only other person I knew on scholar was one of the "Scholar is so much better than black mage types." We had a challenge on Mt. Z at lvl 75. He only ice storm himself, I still smoked him though. His first blizzard IV was for 800 lol. Most scholars are garbage. Every one I talk to, with the exception of my linkshell scholar, is obsessed with out damaging black mage. It is even someone's signature of a regular poster in these threads. Plus the trolls on another forum are already starting with the bliz 5 screenshots from the test server, saying, "Hai guys we just obsoleted black mage" etc.

let me guess, the bolded part is where you stopped quoting Economizer and started speaking for yourself again?