Job Adjustments Manifesto (SMN)

[Vangoh]

So since SE actually asked us to suggest ideas here goes mine.

I really doubt SE gonna add new sprites for new avatars. Even though I REALLY REALLY want them to add actual new avatars they probably won't because of limitations and we all know that is true. Now with that left aside we already got a few sprites left unused even though I'm not too thrilled about Cait Sith and Atomos I will gladly take them because is better than nothing at all. But they also have Odin and Alexander left.

Yes they are 2 hour avatars but as another post I saw back there I don't see why can't we have them as summonable avatars without their 2 hour blood pacts Zantetsuken and Perfect Defense. They still have an arsenal of blood pacts left we could use if they let us have them for more than 5 seconds out. One more thing I'm probably sure they will add later on just gonna remind them Diabolos still missing Cacodemonia and Nightmare needs to be more powerful seriously.

I guess it doesn't hurt to wish for new avatars either so IF they do decide to add new avatars I would like to see is Madeen (light based, original from FF9), Phoenix sounds like it would be very useful offensive and defensive. I know we've been over this a bunch of times but for God's sake let us have freaking Bahamut already. They need to drop their big ego about the "great avatars" being too good for us to handle. I think that label was destroyed when they raised the level cap and we started kicking those terrestial avatars' asses like nothing lol.

OK about the ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts. It is not such a bad idea actually BUT its sounds like a huge drainage of MP so this is what I suggest: Make this ability do what it does but instead of shorting the recast time of blood pacts let us have a charge of blood pact, like SCH and DNC have charges, it will cost us some mp to add a charge and the mp needed to do a BP.

How about Astral Seal? It's sort of like Ele Seal and Divine Seal but for avatars. When calling an avatar with Astral Seal it will come out with enhanced stats attk/eva/def/acc/mattk/madef and all that. 15 min recast just like all other seals. If that is too much then let Astral Seal work to "enhance the potency of the next" blood pact.

OK that is all I have to say for now. Suggestions?

[Malamasala]

So since SE actually asked us to suggest ideas here goes mine.

They did? Didn't notice that. Though they've gotten free ideas from me the last decade, so they better start reading them instead of asking for them.

OK that is all I have to say for now. Suggestions?

Of our own, or regarding yours?

In any case there are two key points to making a job playable.

1) Cost efficiency
2) Activity

Lets start backwards with 2. The job needs to be active. COR has a 20 min Random Deal job ability. How often do I use it? Uhm... once every Einherjar? That is about how often I've used it the last 5 years. 20 min means a useless ability. Stepping down in time, we have Divine Seal 10 min job ability. When do we use it? Uhm, at very rare moments when a divine seal curaga II is worth the hate gain. As we can see, the longer the timer, the less often we bother to use it as it is ready. A few exceptions would be 5 min Siphon and 10 min convert, both too beneficial to neglect even with their timers.

A reasonable delay on an ability that is going to effect a 1 min recast ability though, needs to be shorter than 1 min. BRDs single target ability is the best example. It is ready when you need it, instead of being something ridiculous like 15 min recast that you have to sit and wait on and can only apply 1 ranged song each time. I'd propose 30 seconds recast, which goes hand in hand with a -15 delay on BP timer.

The roundabout issue here though is that you get a new ridiculous system that involves using one JA before you use another JA. Basically you turn SMN into DNC where you have to get finishing moves before you can use your abilities. First reduct BP timer, then use it. Repeat.

This means the idea to begin with is flawed. You can't make a BP timer reduction as an ability. It needs to be a trait. Suggestion:

Blood Sacrifice - Allows triggering Pacts while delay isn't over.
> 50% of the delay left. Lose HP and MP. According to pact cost * 0.5. All hate to SMN.
< 50% of the delay left. Lose MP. According to pact cost * 0.5. All hate as usual to pet.

Example:

BP timer is 45 after gear on activation. You use Earthen Armor followed by Earthen ward within 10 seconds. Since 35 > 45*0.5 = 23, you lose Earthen wards half cost in HP and MP. (About 50 MP/HP). Hate is no issue.

BP timer is 45 etc. You use Predator Claws followed by Predator Claws. You lose 70 HP, pay 210 MP for second predator claws (on top of the 140 you paid for first one, meaning a quick 350 MP spent) and you just got 1.5k hate on Garuda and 1.5k hate on yourself, and you are now co-tanking with your pet.

Tweaks should be done, but I think something along these lines would vitalize Summoner more than if you gave each Summoner player a 1 kg gold ingot in real life.

[Razushu]

They did? Didn't notice that. Though they've gotten free ideas from me the last decade, so they better start reading them instead of asking for them.



Of our own, or regarding yours?

In any case there are two key points to making a job playable.

1) Cost efficiency
2) Activity

Lets start backwards with 2. The job needs to be active. COR has a 20 min Random Deal job ability. How often do I use it? Uhm... once every Einherjar? That is about how often I've used it the last 5 years. 20 min means a useless ability. Stepping down in time, we have Divine Seal 10 min job ability. When do we use it? Uhm, at very rare moments when a divine seal curaga II is worth the hate gain. As we can see, the longer the timer, the less often we bother to use it as it is ready. A few exceptions would be 5 min Siphon and 10 min convert, both too beneficial to neglect even with their timers.

A reasonable delay on an ability that is going to effect a 1 min recast ability though, needs to be shorter than 1 min. BRDs single target ability is the best example. It is ready when you need it, instead of being something ridiculous like 15 min recast that you have to sit and wait on and can only apply 1 ranged song each time. I'd propose 30 seconds recast, which goes hand in hand with a -15 delay on BP timer.

The roundabout issue here though is that you get a new ridiculous system that involves using one JA before you use another JA. Basically you turn SMN into DNC where you have to get finishing moves before you can use your abilities. First reduct BP timer, then use it. Repeat.

This means the idea to begin with is flawed. You can't make a BP timer reduction as an ability. It needs to be a trait. Suggestion:

Blood Sacrifice - Allows triggering Pacts while delay isn't over.
> 50% of the delay left. Lose HP and MP. According to pact cost * 0.5. All hate to SMN.
< 50% of the delay left. Lose MP. According to pact cost * 0.5. All hate as usual to pet.

Example:

BP timer is 45 after gear on activation. You use Earthen Armor followed by Earthen ward within 10 seconds. Since 35 > 45*0.5 = 23, you lose Earthen wards half cost in HP and MP. (About 50 MP/HP). Hate is no issue.

BP timer is 45 etc. You use Predator Claws followed by Predator Claws. You lose 70 HP, pay 210 MP for second predator claws (on top of the 140 you paid for first one, meaning a quick 350 MP spent) and you just got 1.5k hate on Garuda and 1.5k hate on yourself, and you are now co-tanking with your pet.

Tweaks should be done, but I think something along these lines would vitalize Summoner more than if you gave each Summoner player a 1 kg gold ingot in real life.

F' the job adjustments I'll take the gold.


On a serious note aside from the hate on the SMN, I like your idea here.

[Diemond]

SMN
an ability to shed hate to avatars
decreased BP timers is a must, but the penalty to giving up mp is bad. since the decrease in timer is a double edged sword. where we run out of mp even faster while we still struggle to decide which buffs the party need and be able to get in 1 damaging BP and keep party members buffed.
Pheonix would be a much better add than both atamos and catsith. with the ability to raise in an area effect not just party members. which would be awesome for besieged, campaigns..etc

[Razushu]

Sorry I meant hate as in emnity.

Blood Sacrifice - Allows triggering Pacts while delay isn't over.
> 50% of the delay left. Lose HP and MP. According to pact cost * 0.5. All hate to SMN.
< 50% of the delay left. Lose MP. According to pact cost * 0.5. All hate as usual to pet.

I don't think SE hates us, they just seem to be overly cautious when it comes to boosting pet jobs.

[Korpg]

I think you are the perfect example as to why there is anonymity for company employees.

Just because you don't like what a certain aspect of the game is, you shouldn't go out and kill anyone. Not for anything less than...well....murder.

But if everyone abides by that rule, there would be no murder, now would there? But that is another debate.

[Malamasala]

I think you are the perfect example as to why there is anonymity for company employees.

Just because you don't like what a certain aspect of the game is, you shouldn't go out and kill anyone. Not for anything less than...well....murder.

But if everyone abides by that rule, there would be no murder, now would there? But that is another debate.

At least they can avoid death by simply answering a message board question. Not everyone has such an easy way to avoid murder. Not like it seems like SE would say anything on these boards even to avoid murder. It is all secret and surprises when it comes to job changes.

[Sasaraixx]

On a serious note aside from the hate on the SMN, I like your idea here.

Agreed. The hate on the SMN is not a great idea in my mind, particularly because we have no way of shedding hate onto our pets, unlike BST. I'm also not too keen on losing HP either. I think the ability should be on a 1 minute timer and allow the delay to be lowered to 30 seconds before factoring in gear. That would basically allow you to double BP every minute if you choose. It can help you participate in zerg fights, but you will be giving up quite a bit of MP to do it. I better start working on some more refresh gear!

I'd also like an ability to shed hate onto the avatars/spirits or give them a Cover type ability.

I too wanted Phoenix but we'll just have to wait and see what they do with these two. I haven't done WoTG so I know nothing about Caitsith's moves.

I still think Avatar's favor is terribly broken and our Wards need buffing. But that's just me!

[Malamasala]

Agreed. The hate on the SMN is not a great idea in my mind, particularly because we have no way of shedding hate onto our pets, unlike BST.

Your way of shedding hate is waiting until more than half your BP timer has passed. It is just an alternative, not something that forces you to spam Predator claws every 5 seconds and die.

I still think Avatar's favor is terribly broken and our Wards need buffing. But that's just me!

No, that is everyone. Everyone except SE.

[Razushu]

Your way of shedding hate is waiting until more than half your BP timer has passed. It is just an alternative, not something that forces you to spam Predator claws every 5 seconds and die.



No, that is everyone. Everyone except SE.

SMN is a hate free DD though, and waiting a few seconds isn't going to shed 1/2 the hate from a predator claws. An ability that gives hate to the SMN isn't great. Your idea is fine until you start messing with hate, I always thought there should be something to do with HP cost involved for "Blood" Pacts. An Ability like yours is nice but giving the SMN hate would hold it back.