SE, Temper Activation Rate

[Scuro]

Like what exactly. Are you seriously with a straight face trying to tell me that RDM's mage components are hurting more then the melee side? RDM is equal parts BLM,WHM,WAR, not WHM ... then BLM ... then maybe WAR. SE already created a job that masters WHM and BLM magic, it's called SCH. BLU is not RDM, no where close, heck if anything BLU's should be wanting a RDM around them always as Dia III is one of the few ways to jack up the damage on BLU physical spells.

Or were you one of the "SE give us Cure V so we can be WHM's again" crowd?

The fact that you haven't been added to my ignore list means I don't consider you a troll. But I will have to ask, have you ever done a serious RDM melee build?

You guys keep talking about "reason to be there" and "invite rate", which is completely and utter bull sh!t. Are you seriously attempting VWNM's in a pick up group? RDM already has plenty of functions and reasons to "be there", Refresh II with AF2 pants along will guaranteed you a spot with the WHMs, although I hate using that as a reason, still it's one. Then of course the Stun / Slow III / Dia III combo is extremely useful, locking out a single TP move consistently makes many T3/T4 VWNM's easier. Then you have T4 nukes for ranged magic damage, and various crowd control options if SE ever creates another Dynamis / Limbus style event. And on top all that you have enough self buffs to make yourself nigh invincible. This is all before considering the melee side, which isn't weak in the slightest.

In fact let me clear some BS up about that, cause I'm tired of a bunch of noobs making claims they know nothing about. RDM's melee side is not weak, don't ever think that. It needs work due to years of SE ignoring it. RDM lacks the ~GEAR~ and that's it, and seeing from the test server .dat's SE is now correcting that by putting RDM back on the haste / TP gear sets. RDM can get 25% haste and capped acc, we suffer in the attack field, but so does BLU. RDM actually only has slightly lower attack then BLU, we're talking 20 or so attack. And if the RDM is /DRK then they have more attack then BLU, but that's a special sub for specific situations. I use Bison Steak on both, Accuracy hasn't been an issue since 75, and anything that RDM will have an acc issue on BLU will to and thus Pizza +1 will be employed. The biggest dependency was that BLU's get Vorpal Blade natively while RDM is forced to use Evisceration. RDM's are on all the nice swords but aren't on any of the nice daggers. RDM's do get Aeolian Edge and can deal good damage with it so they can participate in the mass farming / amber light farming abyssea groups. And seeing that SE is looking at weapon skill distribution, we might be getting sword EX WS's soon which nullifys this entire argument instantly.

So please tell me, what is your experience with all this, or are you just speaking out of "what everyone knows" type ignorance? Cause the more you talk the close your argument sounds to "RDM melee is deh suckz, don't bother, now get to the back and buff me, and bring me my sammich".

Benthic Typhoon, please check it, a spell in which just about every Physical BLU has equipped does 10% Physical and Magical damage down, while your Dia III does 15%. Thats great and all, but Why would I NEED a RDM? sure that 5% sounds nice, but why sacrifice things that would further benefit the group, just so I have have an additional 10% physical down and not 10% Magical down to benefit my nukers? And you are right with the middle section of this, you are wanted for those said buffs and debuffs. What your not wanted there for is DD. Every RDM's argument is that they have better acc and can parse better then a BLU in terms of sword DPS..... Thats great.... Too bad that really isn't what a BLU purely does in terms of damage (unless your rockin an almace). I had a RDM brag to me that he was hitting more accurately then I was by 15%, to which I simply replied "ya but the difference is it takes me 2 minutes to kill a mob and it takes you DD'n for 7 to kill one."

There is a reason why BLU was introduced to this game, it was to provide DD RDMs the ability to play a true DD hybrid mage class that was meant to be frontlined. You are right that SCH is a better mage hybrid as it stands then a RDM, however, I feel a RDM should be a better buffer then a SCH, and as it stands, it is not. So why waste time, effort, and consideration on a class that will not DD unless it starts to get DD JA's and actual DD gear that makes it competitive with other DD classes. When they should be establishing the class as the buffer and debuffer class that it is. To exceed at benefitting the party by killing mobs faster, rather then dragging out fights because you think your sword is going to make a big difference in the grand scheme of a party. Whenever a DD RDM tells me that he DD's to "benefit the party" I roll my eyes, because it is pure selfishness as to why they do it. A BLU however benefits a party, hell I open just about every fight with a Benthic Typhoon so I can help the mages and the DD's at the same time.

As it stands, the only reason a RDM is needed for anything, is because VoidWatch requires just about every job in the game, outside of that, the class is practically lack luster. Its not desired, and woopdie doo, Refresh II, why take a class that really is only desired for 1 buff, when practically most mages these days /RDM if they really need the MP? The job needs more buffs for me to say "we need a RDM!" and thats the thing RDMs should be going for, buffs that make it desirable and make SCHs take a back seat. Not trying to compete with BLU or get more mediocre DD skills (Temper lol, so basically ever DD RDM's Joyeuse just got a +1, and I mean a joy toy was seriously why everybody invited RDM to be a DD RDM right!?.... Wrong, even with double attack the job still wasn't desired, so why would it be now? The problem isn't how many times you can hit, or how accurate you hit, the problem is that jobs hit faster, and more then a RDM, harder then a RDM, and actually have traits to enhance them as a DD class. So why compete in a fight your already loosing, when you could compete in a fight that you were meant to win?)

[Stylin]

I feel a RDM should be a better buffer then a SCH, and as it stands, it is not. So why waste time, effort, and consideration on a class that will not DD unless it starts to get DD JA's and actual DD gear that makes it competitive with other DD classes. When they should be establishing the class as the buffer and debuffer class that it is.

WHM, BRD, COR, SCH <Please check it.>

If you honestly believe Red Mage is supposed to be a buffer simply because of Haste, Refresh, and Regen you are fooling yourself. Stop riding that badly translated manifesto's dick.

[Scuro]

WHM, BRD, COR, SCH <Please check it.>

If you honestly believe Red Mage is supposed to be a buffer simply because of Haste, Refresh, and Regen you are fooling yourself. Stop riding that badly translated manifesto's dick.

yes obviously RDM is not a good buffer, and that is why things like Temper should have been focused on a party rather then just a self cast that cannot be accesioned.... I'm not saying the buffs you have now make you a great buffer class, obviously not, but what they could introduce would be fantastic, magic attack boost spell, quick magic spell, etc. I mean the list can be endless, and yes I am one of those that is sticking to the manifesto, and feel that RDMs should receive great buffs and debuffs. SE needs to stop wasting its time with DD, (and hell with some of the buffs, like temper, which should of been at least accesionable, it can still boost RDM DD enough to keep the DD RDM quiet) and focus on what it had established as a focus for the class, buffing, and debuffing for the better good of a party.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

yes obviously RDM is not a good buffer, and that is why things like Temper should have been focused on a party rather then just a self cast that cannot be accesioned.... I'm not saying the buffs you have now make you a great buffer class, obviously not, but what they could introduce would be fantastic, magic attack boost spell, quick magic spell, etc. I mean the list can be endless, and yes I am one of those that is sticking to the manifesto, and feel that RDMs should receive great buffs and debuffs. SE needs to stop wasting its time with DD, (and hell with some of the buffs, like temper, which should of been at least accesionable, it can still boost RDM DD enough to keep the DD RDM quiet) and focus on what it had established as a focus for the class, buffing, and debuffing for the better good of a party.

Apparently the manifesto was mistranslated, it said RDM was a self-buffer, not party buffer, so Temper fits the manifesto.

[Stylin]

yes obviously RDM is not a good buffer, and that is why things like Temper should have been focused on a party rather then just a self cast that cannot be accesioned.... I'm not saying the buffs you have now make you a great buffer class, obviously not, but what they could introduce would be fantastic, magic attack boost spell, quick magic spell, etc. I mean the list can be endless, and yes I am one of those that is sticking to the manifesto, and feel that RDMs should receive great buffs and debuffs. SE needs to stop wasting its time with DD, (and hell with some of the buffs, like temper, which should of been at least accesionable, it can still boost RDM DD enough to keep the DD RDM quiet) and focus on what it had established as a focus for the class, buffing, and debuffing for the better good of a party.

That's asinine. Of course Red Mage isn't a good buffer, it's not even one to begin with. A Red Mage is designed to cripple foes with enfeebling magic(where the focus should be) and to enhance it's martial skill through their magic(where we've been sorely lacking). Temper is exactly the way it should be. If you want a party wide Double Attack go ask a Corsair or a Summoner for it.

[Scuro]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11485

Vision
Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic.

We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.

That's asinine. Of course Red Mage isn't a (is meant to be a) good buffer, it's not even one to begin with. A Red Mage is designed to cripple foes with enfeebling magic(where the focus should be) and to enhance it's martial skill through their magic(where we've been sorely lacking). Temper is exactly the way it should be. If you want (Temper should be) a party wide Double Attack (and should recieve further party effecting spells.)go ask a Corsair or a Summoner for it.

Please cease your misinformed slander...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11485

It's not misinformed, someone that speaks both Japanese and English has already stated that the translation is wrong.

[Stylin]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11485

Please cease your misinformed slander...

I'm misinformed? What a riot. You can't even debunk the arguments I've presented. I suppose only the North American and UK Red Mages are supposed to be buffers, is that it? Do you even have Red Mage leveled? A Red Mage's buffs are for themselves, one would think you would have figured that out when Composure only worked for self-cast buffs. Our full AF3 + cape doesn't even give the full duration boost, it's barely 2/3rds the duration we give ourselves. As I've already said, Regen, Refresh, and Haste doesn't magically make us some kind of buffer.

SCH has a higher tier Regen, Storms, Regain, and Accession to make their self-buffs AoE.(inb4 snipes about Regain not being worthwhile)

SMN has various abilities through Blood Pact: Ward and Avatar's Favor that are party wide.

A White Mage has a lot of the same spells as a Red Mage in AoE form.

I'm merely repeating things you should already know. Please, enlighten me on how you can sit there and think Red Mage is a buffer job when everything else brings more to the table. Putting blind faith in an inaccurate manifesto is ignorance at best.

[Rayik]

Deleted. Too late to the party to matter.