SE, Temper Activation Rate

[saevel]

Well with composure, AF+2 boots and cape we're talking the same duration as haste.
180 * 1.3 * 3.0 = 702 seconds or 11:42. Even at 5% you'd still gain attack rounds, especially if setup a macro that applied your combat related buffs at once.

/ma Phalanx <me> <wait 6> (can't remember exact wait I used)
/ma Gain-STR <me> <wait 7>
/ma Temper <me>
<Insert any other needed buffs here>

I do this whenever an opertunity presents itself, either before / after a fight or during a natural pause in the combat. Contrary to what some of the DD's would have people believe, we don't fight brick wall's with infinite HP for loot.

[Tashan]

But does Temper stack with equipment/job traits?

If so, I cannot see a problem with 5% rate.

DA Khanda +2 = 10%
Atheling Mantle = +3%
Brutal Earring = +5%
Calmecac Trousers = +3%

RDM already has 20% in respectable equipment DA.

Potentially 30% if one opts to /WAR for the job trait (arguably not).

With DA Khanda +2 being upgradable in the next update for more DA, Temper's 5% put's RDM closer to the 50% cap and is quite respectable.

[SpankWustler]

But does Temper stack with equipment/job traits?

If so, I cannot see a problem with 5% rate.

DA Khanda +2 = 10%
Atheling Mantle = +3%
Brutal Earring = +5%
Calmecac Trousers = +3%

RDM already has 20% in respectable equipment DA.

Potentially 30% if one opts to /WAR for the job trait (arguably not).

With DA Khanda +2 being upgradable in the next update for more DA, Temper's 5% put's RDM closer to the 50% cap and is quite respectable.

Since it's not possible to Double Attack on a Double Attack, getting closer to the cap would just make the spell's effect on attack rate relatively less. I see where you're coming from, though, since a 50% cap implies that 25+~35+% is a lot of Double Attack.

[Seriha]

But does Temper stack with equipment/job traits?

If so, I cannot see a problem with 5% rate.

DA Khanda +2 = 10%
Atheling Mantle = +3%
Brutal Earring = +5%
Calmecac Trousers = +3%

RDM already has 20% in respectable equipment DA.

Potentially 30% if one opts to /WAR for the job trait (arguably not).

With DA Khanda +2 being upgradable in the next update for more DA, Temper's 5% put's RDM closer to the 50% cap and is quite respectable.

Until the update goes live and people can use their parsers and such again, this'll be hard to test. As is, the proposition of a RDM subbing WAR makes some froth at the mouth, especially in a party setting.

[Tashan]

Until the update goes live and people can use their parsers and such again, this'll be hard to test. As is, the proposition of a RDM subbing WAR makes some froth at the mouth, especially in a party setting.

Lol anti-rdm melee antics aren't as dramatic as people like to make out to be.

It's only when they do it wrong or over-exaggerate do peoPle react.

[Ameglemorine]

I do agree that temper is a bit of a waste "by itself". +5% gives you a greater chance of double attack but also defeats the purpose of RDM not having a "natural" Double attack trait(war) which makes Temper a redundant spell when used by itself. Example, using a Triple Dagger via RDM with 1% chance of landing a triple attack within one round of attacks is possible. But, what is the chances of that actually executing each round? Haste spell and Haste samba with dual wield via DNC subjob can increase the chances of triple attack executing but that's only because of the delay time for each round is shorten til haste samba caps. Yet, this still makes triple dagger useless as a tp feeder via rdm because rdm does not have a "Natural" Triple Attack trait(thf). But, with all the DA gear we already have access to RDM , temper can add a bit more to your damage over time. With that being said, we all have to understand why SE decided to make temper less dominate over an 10% Double Attack trait. Remember all, being a RDM is like having a box of tools at hand. We use the right tools for the right situation. This is what makes RDM so unique.

[saevel]

But does Temper stack with equipment/job traits?

If so, I cannot see a problem with 5% rate.

DA Khanda +2 = 10%
Atheling Mantle = +3%
Brutal Earring = +5%
Calmecac Trousers = +3%

RDM already has 20% in respectable equipment DA.

Potentially 30% if one opts to /WAR for the job trait (arguably not).

With DA Khanda +2 being upgradable in the next update for more DA, Temper's 5% put's RDM closer to the 50% cap and is quite respectable.

You realize that DA experiences decreasing returns right?

Going from 0 to 5 DA is 105/100 = 5% improvement.

Going from 21 to 26 is,
126/121 = 1.0413, 1 4.1% improvement.

The presence of additional DA options does absolutely nothing for disposition of Temper's potency.

Your using 36mp and a few seconds to cast a spell that will give you a 4.1% improvement over 11:45min at best. More importantly is this is supposed to be a RDM "melee" update, and it's looking like complete sh!t so far. Worth casting yes, but barely. It's a brutal earring in spell form.

That being said, if SE just hasn't added scaling yet and we're really seeing the absolute bottom of the spell, then it's not so bad. Gain spells start at +5, so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Tashan]

You realize that DA experiences decreasing returns right?

Going from 0 to 5 DA is 105/100 = 5% improvement.

Going from 21 to 26 is,
126/121 = 1.0413, 1 4.1% improvement.

The presence of additional DA options does absolutely nothing for disposition of Temper's potency.

Your using 36mp and a few seconds to cast a spell that will give you a 4.1% improvement over 11:45min at best. More importantly is this is supposed to be a RDM "melee" update, and it's looking like complete sh!t so far. Worth casting yes, but barely. It's a brutal earring in spell form.

That being said, if SE just hasn't added scaling yet and we're really seeing the absolute bottom of the spell, then it's not so bad. Gain spells start at +5, so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

.

1). Yes, double attack experiences decreasing returns. As does Haste. As does Dual-Wield. As does nearly every stat in the game.

"Double Attack has decreasing returns" is not an argument against it, it's an acknowledgement. You are still getting a positive return that is unique to the job.

It may not be flashy but it's still an increase. If that had been a piece of equipment people would be paying millions for it.

2) 36 MP is cheap and negligible.

[SpankWustler]

Yes, double attack experiences decreasing returns. As does Haste. As does Dual-Wield. As does nearly every stat in the game.

I think you phrased something poorly here, unless you're referring to a different kind of decreasing return than what I'm thinking of.

[SpankWustler]

Contrary to what some of the DD's would have people believe, we don't fight brick wall's with infinite HP for loot.

This statement is true, well, other than the bit about those conspiracy theories you like to entertain. Most theory-crafting doesn't account for monsters dying because it's too big a variable, and this can be a problem.

I was expecting Temper to come out as a gain because of the huge duration Red Mage can currently achieve, even though some things (Steps, Blue Magic on high defense monsters) can come out as a loss. I would have been very surprised if it didn't, but maybe that would be something else to mention when asking for the spell to be adjusted.

As it is now, I can't help but wonder if either the base rate or the skill bonus have been left out. This is the case with Soothing Ruby, so maybe the same mistake happened with Temper. 5% seems very low, especially when the value could be 25% or more without any danger of making Red Mage the kind of melee some of you folks want.