SE, Temper Activation Rate

[SpankWustler]

I wouldn't be surprised if they have a spell creation template where you just punch in all the variables like MP cost, Recast, valid targets, and so on. Click confirm and it generates the code the game would need to actually insert it. Creating the actual animations should be the more time consuming part. But hey, it's easy to call something a waste of time if it doesn't benefit you in some way.

They probably do, but what do you think it actually puts out given some of the bugs we've seen after updates? I wouldn't be shocked in the least if typing in "+5% Double Attack/3 Minute Duration/36 MP Cost" produced a spell that summoned a headless Genbu for thirty minutes at the expense of 3.6 TP and required twenty-four man-hours to repair.

[Septimus]

If we are reaching the limit to the number of spells as has been suggested, then every new spells that is made needs to count. A 5% base activation rate is not a worthwhile trade for a potentially better spell not being able to be created in the future. Even at 20% you would be hard-pressed to say that it should take the place of an enfeeble that reduces a monster's magical evasion, gives it Amnesia, destroys its TP gain, or some other effect that we would like to see take place.

At this stage, if spell resources are getting scarce, opportunity cost is a huge consideration. If a spell is added, then it needs to be a spell that people will cast. The OAT effect will have to be significant because down the line when we hear "no, you can't have any more spells", RDMs are going to get blamed because we got a nigh-useless toy now.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If we are reaching the limit to the number of spells as has been suggested, then every new spells that is made needs to count. A 5% base activation rate is not a worthwhile trade for a potentially better spell not being able to be created in the future. Even at 20% you would be hard-pressed to say that it should take the place of an enfeeble that reduces a monster's magical evasion, gives it Amnesia, destroys its TP gain, or some other effect that we would like to see take place.

At this stage, if spell resources are getting scarce, opportunity cost is a huge consideration. If a spell is added, then it needs to be a spell that people will cast. The OAT effect will have to be significant because down the line when we hear "no, you can't have any more spells", RDMs are going to get blamed because we got a nigh-useless toy now.

If there is a limit then:

1. How do BLU cope, they get the most spells.
2. If BLU spells count in the total with White/Black/Dark magic then remove the lesser more rubbish BLU spells.

That said I find it unlikely there is no way to increase the total whether it be by just adding another Magic command area like they've been doing with inventory for this long.

[Septimus]

If there is a limit then:

1. How do BLU cope, they get the most spells.
2. If BLU spells count in the total with White/Black/Dark magic then remove the lesser more rubbish BLU spells.

That said I find it unlikely there is no way to increase the total whether it be by just adding another Magic command area like they've been doing with inventory for this long.

I could simply say "PS2 Limitations", but I can go into more detail since I have worked with the spell list a lot doing wiki-type stuff.

Essentially it works like this, all spells are on one giant list. The order used to be White Magic, Black Magic, Summoning, Ninjustu, Songs, and Blue Magic. They have had to get more creative when adding in new spells, this is why tier II en-spells are after summoning magic when you sort your spells. When you sort your magic to the automatic setting, most spells go according to their ID numbers in the spell data file. (Cure is 1, Fire is 144, Fire Spirit is 288, Monomi: Ichi is 318, Foe Requiem is 368, Venom Shell is 513. Blue magic is different, it first sorts it according to type, then level, then ID. Except for the spells added after the initial spells which are just by ID.)

Right now there are 767 entries in the spell data files, 631 of them are named spells in the data files, approximately 587 (probably a few more than that) of which we can or will be able to cast by level 99. There is a lot of waste that can be cut, I made a list on the BGForums of some of them like: Dia IV, Dia V, Banish V, Diaga III, Diaga IV, Diaga V, Banishga IV, Banishga V, Poison III, Poison IV, Poison V, Poisonga III, Poisonga IV, Poisonga V, Virus, Curse, Tractor II, Moogle Rhapsody, Jester's Operetta, and Protected Aria. There is also a lot of Blue Magic entries which are unused. But regardless of that, if the official word is that we are running out of spells (could someone find a link to the actual community team post for that), the 767 entries may be more than the system can handle. It may not be an issue of memory in the spell list, there may be some other limiting factor that wouldn't allow for a second magic command. (Were such a thing possible, would they take the time to program it?) Or there is room for more spells, they just said that they are running out of spells as a way to say "Shut up, you're getting what you're getting".

[Hashmalum]

There is a lot of waste that can be cut, I made a list on the BGForums of some of them like: Dia IV, Dia V, Banish V, Diaga III, Diaga IV, Diaga V, Banishga IV, Banishga V, Poison III, Poison IV, Poison V, Poisonga III, Poisonga IV, Poisonga V, Virus, Curse, Tractor II, Moogle Rhapsody, Jester's Operetta, and Protected Aria. There is also a lot of Blue Magic entries which are unused.

Virus and Curse actually get cast by a handful of NMs, and Virus is actually something that RDM should be getting as an enfeeble. But yeah we don't need five tiers of Poison if only the first two ever get cast by anything.

[saevel]

Dia IV, Dia V

I want these, like now.

Banish V, Banishga IV, Banishga V

WHM should be getting Banish IV / V, Banishga III / IV, else just give them Banishja. Their WHM's and its their only line of damage attacks.

[Hyrist]

If we are reaching the limit to the number of spells as has been suggested, then every new spells that is made needs to count.

That would honestly depend on how the limit is implimented.

If it's a limit to the number of spells we can actively have in our list, then the option to simply 'forget' unwanted spells can solve that problem easily.

Not arguing that the spells we get shouldn't 'count' but that's highly subjective depending on the content a player plays in the game.

[Septimus]

That would honestly depend on how the limit is implimented.

If it's a limit to the number of spells we can actively have in our list, then the option to simply 'forget' unwanted spells can solve that problem easily.

Not arguing that the spells we get shouldn't 'count' but that's highly subjective depending on the content a player plays in the game.

The limit to which I refer would be specific to the number of spells possible in the game's data, not just the number that you can cast. It is not an arbitrary limit like blue magic where you can only cast a specific amount of spells that are set with points based on your level, apparently there is a real limit to the amount of spells that can be added because of the game's architecture.

This is why I am saying that if they are going to add Temper, it better be good. Some people will think that Temper wouldn't be worth casting even if it gave 100% Double Attack, gave the mob amnesia, and whitened your teeth with a fresh minty aftertaste; but I think that everyone can agree that a base 5% OAT is completely worthless. Even if it scales to 20%, it still will be not that great. It will have to be in the 30-40% range before I consider it to be a useful spell, even then I will pretty much never use it since I have WAR and THF on my main for all of my murderizing needs. But at least it will be useful for people who want it.

Oh, and I just had a random thought not relating to this quote. Camate said that it can be used with en-spells, that is why the rate is so low. But unless something is changed specifically for Temper, tier II en-spells only do damage on the first swing of an attack round. So if you are single-wielding, you are either going to have to use tier I en-spells and lose out on the damage of the higher en-spell or use the tier II en-spell and not get anything on your second swing. Honestly, the game would not explode if tier II en-spells were just double damage of the tier I, none of that silly charging up or swing restriction.

[Kenthedeviant]

SE,
Good idea on Temper but it's current activation rate of 5% is too low. In needs to be stronger and possibly scale with enhancing magic used during cast.

Can the community representatives please take this note back to SE Dev's, good idea but needs tweaking.

The Test servers were a brilliant idea, they allowed us to identify this issue prior to patch date.

Thanks for your time and have a good day.

Absolutely right. I LOVE the test server for letting us get to see this early, and yes, Temper's proc of a CONFIRMED 5% with capped enhancing skill is just SHAMEFUL. The spell is virtually useless, and the help text description feels like a complete disappointment and a total lie (matching descriptions of weapons such as joyeuse and sea weapons). With only a TENTH of the potency! Please, just do something to adjust this to a REASONABLE level. At 5%, no rdm will even consider casting this, and it's just yet another waste of a spell in a long line of disappointments for RDM, especially those who actually ENJOYED meleeing now and then.

[Supersun]

Not to mention there's some optimization of our spells they can do if necessary.

I mean if they are really hurting for space would it be that broken to combine all of our elemental and status barspells into two spells? One a magic evasion spell and the other a status effect evasion spell. I mean between Whm and Rdm that would free up like 20 spells.

I can't think of a better way for them to stop seeing "waste of devs time" than for us to tell them when they are wasting their time so that they don't keep doing it. It's like not telling someone when their zipper is down. Sure they feel a little angry or embarrassed, but its better than walking around all day not knowing. FYI there are tons of "positive feedback" posts in other portions of the forums. This unfortunately is one of the Items that didn't merit positive feedback.

You could try the BLU, WAR or MNK forums? They seem pretty happy about things in general.

Maybe it'd be better to give suggestions on what to work on instead?

Seriously, search these threads for posts about enfeebling. There aren't many and most of them are made by the same people who ask for melee buffs as well with a handful of others such as Karbuncle and Great Guardian ect....