SE, Temper Activation Rate

[Yamimarik44]

Waste of dev time.

I'm not sure you're fulling grasping the "positive feedback" outlook for forums. I'm not quite sure Dev's want to see "Waste of dev's time." over and over. That really isn't "positive feedback". Everyone has different play styles and many people are very nostalgic and want RDM to have it's melee aspects enhanced the way it was supposed to be when it originally all began. Yes RDM's can buff and get quite an assortment of buff type spells, but RDM is also a great enfeebler(or used to be top noch). Maybe it would be nice if Dev's took another look at RDM's buff aspects especially if you wana go by the Manifesto description. But constantly throwing around "Waste of Dev's time." or some other remark that has no positive outlook at all, is a waste of time in general for us all. All those Enfeebling RDM's want that to be re-worked, all those healing RDM's want Cure V(Which SE did take away from RDM, but I digress.). And many Melee RDM's got a lil happy boost because of this update. Taking away something SE already wants to implement in the game isn't going to further your cause to get what you want out of this job realized by them. So stop wasting everyone's time with all this negative feedback, and just give some positive feedback once in awhile and maybe then your voice will be heard.

[Hyrist]

You are aware you're never going to be in melee range of any voidwatch NM, correct? Or any actually challenging NM in the game?

The same could be said for the vast majority of Melee classes depending on the mob.

"Actually Challenging" is also subjective. A challenging fight can consist of many difficult to CC fodder mobs alla Einherjar and Dynamis before the level cap rise, WoE even as it stands now, Assaults, and many missions/events in which the interim goal isn't as simple as a tank and spank strategy.

And your argument is to narrow our current toolset? No, I disagree heavily. The "Challenging" parts of this game isn't even in the majority of this game's content, by a long shot. And instead of creating more of the same challenges. If anything the challenges should be expanded upon beyond "Keep damage to an absolute minimum on this gigantic mob, whittle it to death."

[Seriha]

I wouldn't be surprised if they have a spell creation template where you just punch in all the variables like MP cost, Recast, valid targets, and so on. Click confirm and it generates the code the game would need to actually insert it. Creating the actual animations should be the more time consuming part. But hey, it's easy to call something a waste of time if it doesn't benefit you in some way.

[cidbahamut]

Not really. I mean 30 seconds might be an exaggeration, but the "design" of the spell is what took all the time.

The "development" of the spell was was just throwing together pre-existing concepts onto one spell

Well sure, if you define it as "writing down the idea on a paper napkin", but I feel that's a tad disingenuous, since you could then say they put together the whole game engine in about a week.

[Septimus]

If we are reaching the limit to the number of spells as has been suggested, then every new spells that is made needs to count. A 5% base activation rate is not a worthwhile trade for a potentially better spell not being able to be created in the future. Even at 20% you would be hard-pressed to say that it should take the place of an enfeeble that reduces a monster's magical evasion, gives it Amnesia, destroys its TP gain, or some other effect that we would like to see take place.

At this stage, if spell resources are getting scarce, opportunity cost is a huge consideration. If a spell is added, then it needs to be a spell that people will cast. The OAT effect will have to be significant because down the line when we hear "no, you can't have any more spells", RDMs are going to get blamed because we got a nigh-useless toy now.

[Juxtaposition]

5% isn't enough to make anyone care. Making it go up with enhancing magic is a good start, but it needs to be significant if SE wants anyone besides diehard DD RDMs to care. Also, make the enhancing magic portion only relevant at time-of-cast, not fluctuate based on how much skill you have when you attack round goes off. Yeah, it is a silly thing to worry about, but this is SE we are talking about here.

I think melee RDM is silly just like the next sensible guy, but the point is SE is making statement that they do not want it to be silly anymore. To be honest, I was kind of hoping that Temper would have been something just out of this world ridiculous, like 100% DA, just to mess with everyone's heads; though I was expecting something along the lines of 2-5% and I wasn't disappointed, heh.

[Hyrist]

If we are reaching the limit to the number of spells as has been suggested, then every new spells that is made needs to count.

That would honestly depend on how the limit is implimented.

If it's a limit to the number of spells we can actively have in our list, then the option to simply 'forget' unwanted spells can solve that problem easily.

Not arguing that the spells we get shouldn't 'count' but that's highly subjective depending on the content a player plays in the game.

[Kenthedeviant]

SE,
Good idea on Temper but it's current activation rate of 5% is too low. In needs to be stronger and possibly scale with enhancing magic used during cast.

Can the community representatives please take this note back to SE Dev's, good idea but needs tweaking.

The Test servers were a brilliant idea, they allowed us to identify this issue prior to patch date.

Thanks for your time and have a good day.

Absolutely right. I LOVE the test server for letting us get to see this early, and yes, Temper's proc of a CONFIRMED 5% with capped enhancing skill is just SHAMEFUL. The spell is virtually useless, and the help text description feels like a complete disappointment and a total lie (matching descriptions of weapons such as joyeuse and sea weapons). With only a TENTH of the potency! Please, just do something to adjust this to a REASONABLE level. At 5%, no rdm will even consider casting this, and it's just yet another waste of a spell in a long line of disappointments for RDM, especially those who actually ENJOYED meleeing now and then.

[Septimus]

That would honestly depend on how the limit is implimented.

If it's a limit to the number of spells we can actively have in our list, then the option to simply 'forget' unwanted spells can solve that problem easily.

Not arguing that the spells we get shouldn't 'count' but that's highly subjective depending on the content a player plays in the game.

The limit to which I refer would be specific to the number of spells possible in the game's data, not just the number that you can cast. It is not an arbitrary limit like blue magic where you can only cast a specific amount of spells that are set with points based on your level, apparently there is a real limit to the amount of spells that can be added because of the game's architecture.

This is why I am saying that if they are going to add Temper, it better be good. Some people will think that Temper wouldn't be worth casting even if it gave 100% Double Attack, gave the mob amnesia, and whitened your teeth with a fresh minty aftertaste; but I think that everyone can agree that a base 5% OAT is completely worthless. Even if it scales to 20%, it still will be not that great. It will have to be in the 30-40% range before I consider it to be a useful spell, even then I will pretty much never use it since I have WAR and THF on my main for all of my murderizing needs. But at least it will be useful for people who want it.

Oh, and I just had a random thought not relating to this quote. Camate said that it can be used with en-spells, that is why the rate is so low. But unless something is changed specifically for Temper, tier II en-spells only do damage on the first swing of an attack round. So if you are single-wielding, you are either going to have to use tier I en-spells and lose out on the damage of the higher en-spell or use the tier II en-spell and not get anything on your second swing. Honestly, the game would not explode if tier II en-spells were just double damage of the tier I, none of that silly charging up or swing restriction.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If we are reaching the limit to the number of spells as has been suggested, then every new spells that is made needs to count. A 5% base activation rate is not a worthwhile trade for a potentially better spell not being able to be created in the future. Even at 20% you would be hard-pressed to say that it should take the place of an enfeeble that reduces a monster's magical evasion, gives it Amnesia, destroys its TP gain, or some other effect that we would like to see take place.

At this stage, if spell resources are getting scarce, opportunity cost is a huge consideration. If a spell is added, then it needs to be a spell that people will cast. The OAT effect will have to be significant because down the line when we hear "no, you can't have any more spells", RDMs are going to get blamed because we got a nigh-useless toy now.

If there is a limit then:

1. How do BLU cope, they get the most spells.
2. If BLU spells count in the total with White/Black/Dark magic then remove the lesser more rubbish BLU spells.

That said I find it unlikely there is no way to increase the total whether it be by just adding another Magic command area like they've been doing with inventory for this long.