SE, Temper Activation Rate

[cidbahamut]

Probably.

I'm imagining the paper-napkin design session where the developers sat down and it didn't go "hey let's buff RDM melee by giving it a line of stat boosting spells and two of those spells will boost melee stats". I imagine it more as "hey let's give RDM a cool line of new spells. Boosting base stats would be cool and useful for a bunch of different tasks and fits their theme of 'doing everything'. Oh and it'll make the melee crowd happy too, so everyone wins.".

[cidbahamut]

Abyssea is about as casual as it gets, was completely new endgame content, and in addition SE completely revamped Dynamis and removed the level cap from CoP and several nation missions. I think that's a pretty glaring approach to making endgame content more casual. I haven't done Voidwatch yet, so I really can't comment on it.

Voidwatch will kick your ass. It's Endgame content with a capital 'E'.

[Ophannus]

Considering THF's Bully and SCH 2hr spells and 2hr were revamped TWICE so far it's safe to say that when Camate posts about RDM's new ability/spell feedback, Temper should be getting a substantial boost in potency as well as a large reduction in Spontaneity's recast. /pray

[Ophannus]

Gain-STR is a negligble melee boost at best, it's just happenstance that it helps melee but we were bound to get it anyway in line with the other Gain-Stat spells. Gain-STR is about +18 STR with good enhancing skill and will probably end up being around 20-25 at 99. That's nice and all but STR isn't very useful in melee damage calculations if your pDIF isn't capped. Considering RDM's sword skill is low and we lack any native +Attack boosting abilities, the +STR really doesn't increase the damage much of our pitiful little sword swings. If it was Gain-Attack and gave us +50-100 attack then we'd be talking melee boost. But +base stats hardly help DD since our accuracy and attack ratings are atrocious in addition to us having much of melee gear aside from Nashira/Expansion augmented gear and a few pre75 pieces. I wouldn't mind SE producing a new set for mages that enhances melee abilities, make it a synergy recipe. Pieces could have tons of +Haste/Acc/Att/ and maybe even an 'enhance sword enhancment spell+X"

[Kitkat]

Yes, VWNM can be tediously hard on some of the fights not to mention striking weak-points while doing it to build your chance at getting items/key items in an area that is relatively limited. I've yet to try the new ones, but heard they will require crowd control tactics to be used again unless you'd rather just wipe.

I don't take from Camate's post that the boost will be substantial, but that it will still have the ability to be boosted to accommodate the fact that everything else enhancing based generally gets stronger as the skill goes up for rdm and that like some of these spells there will be an upper cap to keep it from getting too strong. Knowing SE I expect 5% base increase to 10% generously, or as blu recently learned about their Double attack trait only being 7% instead of the perceived 10%, a more realistic low end cap of 7~8%. I say this mainly due to how strength of enhancing magic spells has scaled down as the cap continues to rise. Phalanx beyond 300 skill has a similar equation to 5/5 phalanx II (which I assume is only to keep it balanced with Phalanx II since if it didn't change Phalanx would be up around 40 mitigation by now while II would start lagging behind by 320 tier).

Edit: Dat mining on test server shows that they are adding new alternatives to dusk+1 hands/feet, neck options and a few other items that will go towards complimenting rdm melee, but it is yet to be seen how easy/hard these items are to get at this point. Nothing shown that is specific to rdm much like enhancing sword was or other +enspell dmg options they added also (which is rather limited if I recall correctly).

[Hyrist]

I'd say there's a difference between designing content to be more accessible to players in general(yay for no more 24 hour spawn window nonsense), and designing events specifically for casual players.
Also there's probably a distinction to be made between events and end-game events.

A difference that needs to be blurred, in my opinion.

I have to wonder what your specific idea of 'endgame' is. Is it just tier based monsters you fight over and over again? As I Stated before in other forums, I find that sort of endgame rather boring and monotone. You can have many difficult bosses you can fight ,but it starts to degrade into the same old tank and spank with various "oh, but you have to hit this specific weakness." It lacks a lot about what I liked in Final Fantasy in general, where it was the players that were outnumbered, not the monster.

Not that I say they should abolish that direction, but to reinvest some time back into the Dynamis/Einherjar/Walk of Echoes/Salvage, bit where there were weaker monsters to handle first, or like Assaults/Campaign Ops where there was actual objectives that needed to be met. These situations could lend itself both to the casual player and more to the martial aspects (up until the bosses).

It's possible to make such an endgame accessible to the casual player yet still have the difficulty and rewards craved by the hardcore endgame base as well. It's really not all that hard, actually.

Here's one for you:

A lesser currency can be gained by doing 'fodder runs' in an arena setting that could use any particular zone. The currency can be used to buy mid-tier upgrades or temp items to assist performances in the run, as well as 'passes' to hop in the arena for boss fights which are done as separate runs. The higher the 'tier' mob, the higher currency cost.

Bosses drop trophies (key items that drop for everyone) that can be exchanged for high end gear. And the best of the gear require trophies form an entire series of mobs, rather than just one particular boss.

To spice things up, you can have some monsters in the fodder run be immune to magical damage, or physical damage, or have specific (and random) objectives to each run. (Think Nyzul Isle with a bit more depth.)

It's not hard to create a system that entertains both aspects. The idea here is to keep the appeal broad.

Endgame shouldn't be something reserved specifically for the hardcore base. And while it's nice to have the HNM system on a forced-pop basis, that only appeals to one category of possible endgame, and it really narrows the scope of play that was burst wide open by Abyssea.

I don't see that as intelligent game design. When you make a change that profound, you kinda need to follow through with it. I don't mind that the Hardcore Players got their hard fights back. In fact, I like it. But keeping the concept of 'endgame' broad will keep more players around.


Anyways, we're getting off topic. There are parts of the game (Granted, some of the older content.) in which RDM's frontline performances do work to benefit due to decreased difficulty and the resulting lower performance needs. There's nothing wrong with developing this further to make the martial aspects of the job more viable.

It would be something optional, but at least acceptable.

[FrankReynolds]

Ok, I see where you're coming from with the rest of your post, but this is killing me. You can't count the new Gain spells separate from being a true melee buff and then turn around and say they buff melee, but it doesn't count because they were going to anyway previously? We got swords 8 years ago, I think that predates the Gain spells considerably in the "logical progression of melee" thing. Gain-STR is a new spell that's self only, and boosts melee, right there alongside Temper. Logical continuation or not, it is what it is, and those two together are a considerable boost for melee.

We're saying the same thing, just seems like classifying them differently for some reason.

I have to chime in here, perhaps add some clarity. Gain-Str was added as a natural progression of spells. They didn't add it because Red mage needed some melee power. They added it because it was next up in that line of spells.

When they added Gain-CHR, they weren't just trying to come up with a clever way to keep people from knowing they wanted to boost red melee power.

While I can't know for sure if SE really wants Red to be a melee class.... I can guarantee you that they didn't add that line of spells as a specific means to Boost melee, I just happens that that is one of the things it does.

I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on STR being a melee stat. I think cid takes issue with it being used as an indicator of what red mage is supposed to become.

[cidbahamut]

A difference that needs to be blurred, in my opinion.

Your opinion doesn't count for much, Mr. I-Don't-Have-Time-To-Play-This-Game.

[Hyrist]

Again, you resort to insults when you can't come up with a good counter.

Are you going to come up with an intellectual reply to the topic or just try to anger me?

My playtime has absolutely nothing to do with this topic except for my leanings towards having this game be more accessible to those who cannot dedicate a regular schedule to the game. My idea makes up for that fact by instead of providing random rewards, making a system that allows for clear progression towards a goal regardless of play frequency. Those who play more would still progress faster given the system I've listed above, but those who live erratic schedules would not be subject to either getting lucky or getting nothing, or, in cases of more organized shells, constantly being at the rear of the list due to having a life outside FFXI.

It actually takes the DKP system and applies it directly into an in-game mechanic and keeps it in context to the event at hand. It also helps regard the RNG troubles that this game is notorious for.

[SpankWustler]

NeoDynamis is going to be full of weak monsters, with a few really hard ones here and there.

The new tiers of VoidWatch are going to be nothing but really hard monsters.

Before this, there was Abyssea and the initial tiers of Voidwatch. A similar dichotomy.

This seems like a fair indication that SE wants to maintain the status quo. Some stuff with fodder mixed in and some stuff with only huge monsters that hate all life and want to snuff it out with unpleasant status effects and area of effect attacks.

Works for me, as long as I never have to spend four hours a day cleaning my house due to boredom that is due to waiting on a dragon again. Although, that spot at the back of my over has never been so free of gunk before or since.