Relic WS still bad on the test server

[Return1]

A lot of people seem to want to pitch relic fixes without actually having relics.

The single hit nature of Relic WSs is a boon, not a shortcoming. This means we can virtually ignore accuracy altogether, adding more WSC mods. Having +1 to fTP is essentially the same as adding an extra hit as well, disregarding the extra tp per hit, it's actually better.

The +25% damage to Relic Weaponskills last upgrade was amazing and closed the gap significantly. In fact, for some noncrit WS Empyreons, the Relics are pretty even, maybe even slightly better. A nice benefit of adding a 1.25 multiplier to the end is that it boosts DA/TA/QA procs, and SE damage for DRKs, whereas a straight fTP boost wouldn't affect those.

If SE at very least adds a 1.50 multiplier Relics should catch up significantly in WS damage, but either making all WSs capable of crits or 1.75 multipliers would make Relics worth it again.

[Frost]

A lot of people seem to want to pitch relic fixes without actually having relics.

The single hit nature of Relic WSs is a boon, not a shortcoming. This means we can virtually ignore accuracy altogether, adding more WSC mods. Having +1 to fTP is essentially the same as adding an extra hit as well, disregarding the extra tp per hit, it's actually better.

The +25% damage to Relic Weaponskills last upgrade was amazing and closed the gap significantly. In fact, for some noncrit WS Empyreons, the Relics are pretty even, maybe even slightly better. A nice benefit of adding a 1.25 multiplier to the end is that it boosts DA/TA/QA procs, and SE damage for DRKs, whereas a straight fTP boost wouldn't affect those.

If SE at very least adds a 1.50 multiplier Relics should catch up significantly in WS damage, but either making all WSs capable of crits or 1.75 multipliers would make Relics worth it again.

This is assuming that relic Weaponskills actually get an accuracy bonus. From my experience... They don't. Relic Weaponskills are painfully underpowered in nearly every way... It's infuriating because we've been promised a "fix" for nearly 7+ years, and the closest we've gotten was a 25% bump to what in most cases would be considered mediocre damage to begin with.

[Atomic_Skull]

A lot of people seem to want to pitch relic fixes without actually having relics.

The single hit nature of Relic WSs is a boon, not a shortcoming. This means we can virtually ignore accuracy altogether, adding more WSC mods. Having +1 to fTP is essentially the same as adding an extra hit as well, disregarding the extra tp per hit, it's actually better.

The +25% damage to Relic Weaponskills last upgrade was amazing and closed the gap significantly. In fact, for some noncrit WS Empyreons, the Relics are pretty even, maybe even slightly better. A nice benefit of adding a 1.25 multiplier to the end is that it boosts DA/TA/QA procs, and SE damage for DRKs, whereas a straight fTP boost wouldn't affect those.

If SE at very least adds a 1.50 multiplier Relics should catch up significantly in WS damage, but either making all WSs capable of crits or 1.75 multipliers would make Relics worth it again.

The suggested 1.75 cRatio multiplier is not a direct damage multiplier, it would make the WS partially ignore level difference like Y/G/K/ Steel Cyclone, Spinning Slash etc. It is similar to (though not precisely the same as) giving the WS an attack bonus. I advocate that rather that just increasing the fTP because it wouldn't necessarily make the WS more damaging (it would do nothing on mobs that were less than T), but would make it more useful on high level mobs.

Single hit with a moderate fTP isn't much of a boon on Mercy Stroke, 9 times out of 10 you end up spamming Evisceration anyway. A 4 hit crit WS with a 3.0 fTP on the first hit would be far more useful to THF.

This is assuming that relic Weaponskills actually get an accuracy bonus. From my experience... They don't.

All physical WS have an accuracy bonus to the first hit.

[Return1]

The suggested 1.75 cRatio multiplier is not a direct damage multiplier, it would make the WS partially ignore level difference like Y/G/K/ Steel Cyclone, Spinning Slash etc. It is similar to (though not precisely the same as) giving the WS an attack bonus. I advocate that rather that just increasing the fTP because it wouldn't necessarily make the WS more damaging (it would do nothing on mobs that were less than T), but would make it more useful on high level mobs.

Single hit with a moderate fTP isn't much of a boon on Mercy Stroke, 9 times out of 10 you end up spamming Evisceration anyway. A 4 hit crit WS with a 3.0 fTP on the first hit would be far more useful to THF..

The 1.75 I'm proposing would be a straight multiplier tacked on the end, just like the 1.25 currently is. It'd be better than a cRatio boost for most cases.

Very few WSs have a large initial hit fTP value (over 1) if they have more than 2 hits. Also, evisceration is only used when SA/TA is down in Abyssea. A multihit with a total fTP of 4.2 with all hits landing is weaker than a single hit with an fTP of 4.2 when given the same WSC, because the multihit requires far more accuracy, and thus has less WSC. SATA also makes the single hit preferable to THF and (lol)/THF.

Making all physical WSs capable of criting would fix A LOT of imbalance in this game.




And yes, as an Apoc holder I can confirm Relic WSs do get the ACC bonus on first hit, just like every physical WS in the game.

[Atomic_Skull]

Also, evisceration is only used when SA/TA is down in Abyssea.

As a Mandau THF I can tell you from personal experience that Evisceration is used almost full time because the mob spins like a top making SATA more likely than not to miss.

And nobody gives a damn about making the mob point in a particular direction for SATa anyway because it's not worth wasting time on when you have a couple MNKs doing the hundred crack fist of the north star on the mob.

I did read what you posted, but I see you're basically doing the same thing you accuse me of. Your proposal will break relic WS more, hell Mercy would become the new evisceration and no longer even need SA which to me is very broken. Don't need another 4 hit crit dmg WS that has a 3.0 ftp on first hit. People want them to be equal, not overpowered/unbalanced.

Why should a weapon that takes years to upgrade be merely equal to a weapon that takes a few weeks?

More broken than Ukko's or Victory Smite? I find that hard to believe.

Even if being able to do good damage without SATA is "broken", (which I don't believe to be true), it is a Relic not an Empyrean, it not like we're going to see thousands of them flooding the servers like we have with emps. They are much, much more difficult to obtain.