Why do people hate Hvergelmir?

[Yamimarik44]

Imagine a DRK in your ls wanted help getting a novio so he could spend all of his time nuking instead of meleeing.

That's kinda how i see hverglemir (oppositely, of course)

That may be your opinion on it, but does that DRK still not have rights to the earring, if they have met the requirements? Maybe they plan on leveling a mage job in the future. Even so I understand about priorities for certain items, but we all know a DRK or LS in their right mind will not do such things. This is different entirely, this is making an Empyrean weapon. Not lotting on something that has gil value as well. If that's how you feel about it, that's how you feel. I'm not 100% sure though that is everyone's way of thinking or really helpful in understanding the issue.

[Raksha]

That may be your opinion on it, but does that DRK still not have rights to the earring, if they have met the requirements? Maybe they plan on leveling a mage job in the future. Even so I understand about priorities for certain items, but we all know a DRK or LS in their right mind will not do such things. This is different entirely, this is making an Empyrean weapon. Not lotting on something that has gil value as well. If that's how you feel about it, that's how you feel. I'm not 100% sure though that is everyone's way of thinking or really helpful in understanding the issue.

I have no comments about any particular person deserving/not deserving any particular item.

You said you wanted people's opinion about hverglemir and I gave mine.

Here's the part I was replying to:

I'm sorry but I'm trying to find aspects as to why people hate the weapon in general. Not question the player in questions work ethic towards said LS.

P.S. Whether the item has gil value or not is irrelevant. All items in this game have some cost associated with them. The point isnt the DRK wanting the item, It's the DRK wanting to nuke instead of melee.

[SpankWustler]

For melee jobs, Empyrean weapons make what they already do better. They make Warriors chop harder, Monks punch harder, and Thieves poke harder. This is always helpful.

For a Summoner, Havartidangler is used in a situational style of play that is tremendously different. Sometimes this style of play helps the Summoner deal more damage and gain more MP compared to traditional methods, but often it's best to play the job traditionally.

For Black Mage and Scholar...STOP THAT! PUT THAT THING DOWN! NO! BAD! QUIT IT! THERE'S NO ELEMENTAL AFFINITY ON THAT STICK AND I NO LONGER LOVE YOU!

That said, at this point it's not like anything in FFXI is hard to damage, so does this really matter? If I were in that group's shoes I'd just help your friend make whatever she wants, because it's not like one more melee Empyrean over one Havartidangler is going to do anything palpable for the group.

[Economizer]

For Black Mage and Scholar...STOP THAT! PUT THAT THING DOWN! NO! BAD! QUIT IT! THERE'S NO ELEMENTAL AFFINITY ON THAT STICK AND I NO LONGER LOVE YOU!

If you are nuking more then 50% more, you are doing more damage with the unpronounceable Empyrean staff then you would be with an affinity staff. But perhaps the aftermath should affect spells and avatars? I can't see putting any affinity on the staff, considering what it is supposed to be for, but with affinity and weather, you can do about 50% more damage per nuke, so occasionally matching this wouldn't be so bad, right?

[Kimara]

I don't hate the staff I'm currently building one at the moment. I am also building a Nirvana but for me it's more of what I want to do for fun. I decided to build an emp mainly because it gave me something to do while having to wait to build my Nirvana with it being a much slower process than building an emp staff.

[Dragoy]

I think it's simply about who the weapons are made for in said Linkshell: The players, or the linkshell itself.

If they claim to make them for the players, and have no certain list agreed upon, or any other rules that members are made aware of, I wouldn't stay there for longer than perhaps a half of a blink of an eye, if they refused to make a certain one for certain player for whatever reason.


That may be just me, though. ^^
Blubb Regards,

[Yamimarik44]

Thank you all for your inputs and concerns on the matter. I really appreciate it all, this person is very close to finishing the staff now. Mostly on her own, with help from friends and such as well. It just bothers me mostly because I've seen many LS's and friends deny help to make this empyrean for their LS mates/friends and it shouldn't be a factor at all. If the LS mate/friend in question has met requirements/helped out a lot you would think helping them achieve their LS/personal goals would matter to you.

@Raksha: I was merely expressing my opinion on the matter of how you stated your opinion, though I might've read into it wrong, and for that I'm sorry. I was looking for people opinions, but I think I should have been more specific and asked for opinions as to why an LS, a general mass of people, wouldn't want to help make this item for an active LS member and deny further help after a certain stage when that isn't how the LS functions on other items of this type. Thank you again for your input.

[tfun90]

Why would a "general mass of people" not want to prioritize a staff Empy? Well then here are the obvious reasons for you since you apparently like to ignore them then wonder why there are no reasons left.

1. It is a toy weapon with similar time/gil/effort investment to truly useful weapons.
2. It doesn't help LS runs to anywhere near the extent that a Kannagi, Ukon, or Verethragna do.
3. It doesn't increase the utility or potency of SMN to the extent that any other melee's empy does for that melee job.
4. I'm not even sure it increases the potency of SMN. Isn't SMN's calling card that they're largely out of AoE range and thus hate free, risk free damage?
5. If I haven't even seen an SMN in events for months, guess whether or not their empy is in demand.

If those reasons don't spell a clear picture to why it is a completionist piece and not a necessary piece, you're in denial about how Empys have effected FFXI, and how your LS really functions.

And before you respond AGAIN with "but it's their points, they can burn them how they want," just don't, because you're in denial over how useful a Hv{tab key} is, too. Alssuming that the "certain stage" reference is about taking that empy to 90, it is a complete waste of time as it doesn't improve the weapon's purpose, which is to recover MP through TP. The LS precedent, assuming that there is one about taking weapons to 90, is not that all weapons are taken to 90, but that Empys worth the effort to 85 are up for discussion about 90. If you thought that all weapons are taken to 90 carte blanche, you were wrong, because 90ing an Empy is no minor feat, and the time would be better spent 90ing something else, or starting another Empy.

Staff is not up for discussion because nobody gives a rat's ass about the SMN's staff's base damage or MP boost. I would find it offensive that someone would even deign to request my time on such a useless endeavor. I don't care what they do for me or the LS or anything else, if event time rolls around and it's time to 90 a staff, we had better be scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of things that people want, because that is pretty damn low.

There are only so many hours in a day, and only so many of them do I wish to waste fulfilling some pipedream about melee SMN. I'd do it for a good friend to 85, but s/he better scratch my back right back.

[Kimara]

Now I'm starting to get confused since when do you need a linkshell to build an emp? We dou'd my husbands katana nearly the entire way. I plan it do the same with the emp staff. 2+ people and you can do most of the NM's unless we're talking about you can't wait a week or two and you need it in a day. If you feel like you're wasting your ls's time, do it yourself.

[Scribble]

This wasn't insightful at all. I'm sorry but I'm trying to find aspects as to why people hate the weapon in general. Not question the player in questions work ethic towards said LS.

I'm all for spending your points the way you want to if you are putting in the work. I would hope everyone will agree, but I think you're missing the point that most people are trying to get across here though. No one hates the weapon. In the grand scheme of which weapons will have the most impact on your LS as a whole in terms of time invested vs performance at events, there are many other options that I would see being a priority over this one.

It's like the difference between buying a new set of tires or a set of those flashy aerodynamic windshield wiper cover thingies. One is for performance and the other is cosmetic. Slapping an aegis or ochain on your paladin will make you a better tank. Slapping a howdjasayit on your summoner will make you look cool in town