A Simple Request from Thieves: An upgrade to Thief's Knife.

[Economizer]

i liked a sugestion that went in the general manifesto thread some time ago (i think). Someone thought of a trait for war that it would not lose tp when swapping weapons. We could just extend this to everyone, really. This would open some new cool gameplay tactics, and it certainly fixes the TK curse.

Equip multihitter. Get TP. Equip high damage weapon. Use WS. Repeat.

Dual wield would get a massive nerf if this happened. Two-handed weapons would be insanely overpowered.

There are a lot of neat things you could do with this, but in the end, the game isn't balanced around this at all.

[FrankReynolds]

They need to cap Treasure Hunter from gear at +2, and then add Treasure Hunter +1 to all of the final stage Magian Daggers. That would eliminate the need for TK, and people could have a range of choices to use.

Maybe make the trial a side branch with requirements of killing 500 THF type mobs while having Treasure Hunter of a certain level in effect.

[Nynja]

My best weapon for my Lv90 Cor is Lv51. Can I get an upgrade to my Vulcan's Staff as well then?

Does the weapon DMG and Delay play a factor? No...then its fine as is. Though I was expecting someone to bring up weapons like that...

[Karbuncle]

I was hoping to not go the nerf route (Limiting it to +2 from gear), However if thats the only solution they'll give us, i'd take it.

I'd like to avoid nerfs though if possible :X

[FrankReynolds]

I don't really see it as a Nerf, you can still build it up fairly easy. Maybe they could just adjust the likelihood of increase at lower levels to compensate.

[Karbuncle]

I don't really see it as a Nerf, you can still build it up fairly easy. Maybe they could just adjust the likelihood of increase at lower levels to compensate.

Well, Perhaps, I think it would solve the entire problem in the shortest amount of time...

[noodles355]

1) Is how you go about "Providing the counter argument" sarcasm and abrasiveness/rude posts. You're making negative tones, rather you see it or not. Your methods are the problem not your message. Surely you see this.

Irrelevant to the point. Up until that post there was no rude messages. I stated other jobs would want the same, and then I stated that I want my vulcan's staff upgraded on Cor. Any abrassiveness afterwards was a response to your "go away" post.

2) Theres a difference between "I want my x weapon to be upgraded, Even though theres already upgrades to it" and "This weapon is gimp and theres no way to replace it, can we upgrade it".

There's upgrades to it through other means - non multi-attack weapons with boosts like snapshot or MaB. There is no high level multi-attack weapon for cor melee. It's a weapon who's purpose (multi-attacking for fast TP gain) hasn't been replaced by something that does the same, like TK.

Arguing against something you want, whats your angle? Why be the negative Nancy of the thread? We know what we're asking is a longshot, but we also feels its plausible.

It's called playing the Devil's Advocate. Why get your hopes up for something that wont happen? Get over it and move on or look for solutions that are plausible. Don't hang onto your first idea so tightly.

I'm actually pretty happy You said this, this is the rude abrasiveness Fire-starting BS i was talking about when i asked you not to derail, thanks for saving me the trouble of digging up examples, As you just made one in this very post.

Your last post said stop derailing, suggresting i had before the last post. There was no previous derailing or flaming. All of this you provoke by accusing me of causing trouble when all I did was provide a reason why this wont happen (thus, you should look for another means).

K, You said what you wanted too. At this points its not a counter argument to the OP, its you making angry posts because i offended you.

No, it's me giving you the reason SE wont implament this. It's looking at both sides of the argument to try and understand if it is plausible or not. Then it's you insinuating that I'm trolling and derailing when I make a valid point, just because it's against your idea.

This is not a productive area of discussion, Nothing will come of this. Surely you can see that too?

It's not a productive area of discussion? The one single reason it won't be implamented? Nothing will come of it in regards to SE adding this option, sure. But nothing will come of this whole post for that means for the reason I stated.

Despite this being another example of your "Firestarting rude" Attitude problem.

From the person who misinterpreted a previous completely civil post and started this whole thing?

We're not asking to upgrade old weapons that are still useable into great weapons, We're asking to upgrade a bad weapon We're still forced to wear on the job, so that it doesn't hurt us any further than it needs too.

People gimp themselves for the greater good of the LS all the time. And I know what you're asking for, however the simple fact is that it's still asking for one single pre76 weapon to be upgraded.

To try and clarify, Thief's Knife is both Useless and forced in our hand.

Mkris, Joyeuse, and Vulcans are not. These are different examples, as i am not a cor, I can't speak if these weapons are replaced by now, However, None of these weapons are forced in your hand by your linkshell in order to play your job. There is a large difference between those weapons being outdated, and a Weapon thats meant for 70 still forced in our hands at 90 to 99.

We want Thieves' knife because we're still forced to wear it. there is no upgrade to it, there is nothing better to equip for Treasure hunter. Even if there was, it would be a case of "Main hand new Weapon off hand THF knife". Its an outdated weapon we are indeed forced to wear if we want to be on THF.

Again, not a problem on 1 NM fights, a Big problem on Mass farming/Dynamis/Limbus style events

As much as I do agree I would like to see a replacement for TK, I just can't see SE doing it. There is already means to increase TH beyond what Thf Knife gave through AF3 Feet and lvl up procs. If they upgrade thief knife they will be forced to make everything upgradeable.

I'm not against making everything upgradeable with synergy augments. But it shouldn't just be for TK. If you want a boost for TK that the dev team will concider, then you should either ask for 2 new daggers that have TH+1 on it (you can't equip 3 daggers so TK would be replaced) or ask for the option to upgrade any old weapon.

[Nynja]

If they upgrade thief knife they will be forced to make everything upgradeable.

Based on what? TK is a weapon that is used for its extra stats, NOT for its dmg or delay, but its dmg and delay becomes a factor in thf dmg. You cant compare TK to joyeuse or MKris...because you arent using those weapons for dmg, but for TP gain...and if you were using it for DMG you'd use different weapons. You're not using a Vulcan Staff for DMG or Delay, you're not even trying to melee with it, you're using it for the STR+5 and Ratk+15.

And you want some "upgrades" to your Vulcan Staff?
Sagasinger is cor usable and comes with STR+15
The lv89 dagger (acainaces?) comes with Snapshot

Cant have everything in one weapon, nor are we asking for everything on TK. Were just asking if its dmg/delay can be made more respectible, and maybe an extra goodie or two.

[Karbuncle]

Edit: I have a Better idea. Time to activate the SEOFRUILBF. Pointless flame wars are simply best ignored.

(Not you Nynja)

[Economizer]

I was hoping to not go the nerf route (Limiting it to +2 from gear), However if thats the only solution they'll give us, i'd take it.

I'd like to avoid nerfs though if possible :X

It would be an interesting route to take, to say the least. Currently you can get +4 Treasure Hunter from gear effects inside Abyssea, (AF3+2 Feet, AF2 Arm, Dagger, Atma), since Atma sources count as gear. This would effectively be a -1 outside Abyssea (assuming the Kupowers buff doesn't count as gear), and a -2 inside, in exchange for much better damage from Thief.

Of course, upgrading the Thief's Knife itself would probably be easier then changing the code for Treasure Hunter, since the methods to upgrade weapons are already in place. In addition to making good suggestions, we have to also consider implementation difficulty if we ever want to see something implemented in a reasonable amount of time.

Edit: On all this talk about the Vulcan's Staff, perhaps the solution would be a higher level Shield equivalent to Elemental Staves. Still, upgrading the Staff itself is silly and a different debate - if you could just get a weapon with better stats for the Thief's Knife, I'd suggest that, but doing that would result in that weapon and the Thief's Knife being used together. The whole point this thread came up was because of this reality. Getting a better weapon for other stuff is an entirely different discussion.