A Simple Request from Thieves: An upgrade to Thief's Knife.

[Karbuncle]

It's a special case. No other DD is still forced to use a level 70 weapon. Their old weapons were obsolete'd by new better weapons. Anyone who saw Thief's knife was getting an upgrade and was like "I WANT MAH DESTOYORZ UPGRAEDED" probably actually talks like that.

EDIT: I just wanna repeat that I would join the taliban and cut peoples heads off if they implemented anything even close to that BC idea.

I Mirror this sentiment.

The problem with comparing it to other ~70 Weapons is no other DD-job is forced to melee in an outdated weapon because it helps the job, all of them have gotten upgrades to those weapons in generally every field. There is not a single other comparison. This weapon is forced in our hands rather we like it or not. Unless they impose a Treasure Hunter Limit from Equipment of +1/+2 (I.E hands + Feet, so weapon is free) There is no other solution outside of upgrading it to make it useful enough. (note i said Solution: ignoring it is not a solution <_>)

If you're joining us now, I'm not asking for it to become god of weapons, Only that its more powerful than it is now. I.e Respectable. Any intelligent Thief who's not trying to play devil's advocate will tell you that they feel Thief's Knife needs an upgrade if we're going to be forced to continue to use it.

Truthfully, I have a few options)

1) Upgrade Thief's Knife. Via Synergy, or Trial of the Magians, or some other Quest (perhaps a tie in to the end of the THF AF quests). Make it difficult if you have too, but try not to make it involve camping a new NM or something similar. I.E if you're going to make it "Get xxx drop" have "xxx drop" drop from multiple enemies, Lots of them. Preferably not in dungeons.

2) Create a new level 90 Weapon that shares a name with Thief's Knife, allowing you to only hold/own one (is it possible?)

3) Impose a +TH Cap from gear to +1 or +2.

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I like options 1/2, Option 3 is a last resort.

Edit: As mentioned before, Zoraal Ja's Axe (Lvl70 Reward+10%) is the closest comparison i can think of when it comes to an outdated weapon being useful, But its not so much forced in their hands, more of preference.

[Laphine]

i liked a sugestion that went in the general manifesto thread some time ago (i think). Someone thought of a trait for war that it would not lose tp when swapping weapons. We could just extend this to everyone, really. This would open some new cool gameplay tactics, and it certainly fixes the TK curse.

Another thing i just thought of lol: make it so we don't need to equip TH+ shit to get the effect. Could maybe make it so we get the boosts while we have the items in our bag. Insta fix~

[Nynja]

1-to hell with doing a BCM for a .25% chance at getting drop, gfy.

2-Thief's knife is a 100% drop, but if you tried to farm the damn pop item for Sozu, you'll quickly realize it is not 100% drop.

3-Synergy isnt as bad as you're making it out to be...it could follow suit to how all the abjus and sky gear gets upgraded. Trade Knife + X item, attempt synergy, get result. If you dont like the result, you trade that knife + X item, and you try again.

4-regarding "overpowered lv70 knives", I dont tihnk it would be difficult to add a level restriction, like so
Thief's knife RARE EX
(Dagger) All Races
DMG: 28 Delay: 194
"Treasure Hunter" +1
Lv. 90: DMG+10 Delay-15 Triple Attack +3
Lv. 70 THF

Up the weapon level and give it a newer name (TK+1?), no big deal. Theres already armor restrictions preventing certain gear to be equipped (novennial stuff, cloaks and headwear, attempting to DW without a main weapon), preventing both TK's to be equipped should be easy.

Magian trials would work as well, since it would keep all TK's equal. I dont think the level really matters since I doubt any thf would sync down to farm stuff?

[Nynja]

i liked a sugestion that went in the general manifesto thread some time ago (i think). Someone thought of a trait for war that it would not lose tp when swapping weapons.

Yeah I rememeber that post and the poster got laughed off the boards...I believe it was Kingfury...

[noodles355]

My best weapon for my Lv90 Cor is Lv51. Can I get an upgrade to my Vulcan's Staff as well then?

[Karbuncle]

No one's forcing you to use Thief Knife.

You join any decent LS your butt is going to be required to hit everything with your max TH, or you'll be replaced with someone who can/has higher TH. So yes, If you want to play THF in a LS Environment, You're going to be forced to wear that weapon, or you'll be replaced.

so if you don't want to be "Forced to wear it", its do everything alone, or switch jobs, Both i don't feel acceptable.

So i get it, you don't agree with the idea, thats great, but you've said your piece, you've voiced your opinion, and i respect that, Now you're just causing unnecessary trouble. So can you kindly not derail this thread further?

Thank you for understanding. If you actually have something to contribute, feel free to continue posting.

Edit: You edited your post, I feel I'll keep this here though.

Edit2: Fixed stuff, And wanted to say, I like your idea Nynja, Very much so. I'll add it to the OP.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Tell me whats so bad about using your treasure hunter set for the first few hits and then switching to tp gear, so you lose a lil tp its no biggie thf gets mad tp from triple attack and double attack gear/traits. Really I dont see what the issue is. When farming in abyssea i dont even switch gear unless on a nm because they die so fast with the atmas i have equiped, and outside abyssea its almost the same unless its a NM and guess what im not loosing sleep over he 30tp i waste when i change to tp gear from treasure hunter after the first few hits.

[Karbuncle]

Tell me whats so bad about using your treasure hunter set for the first few hits and then switching to tp gear, so you lose a lil tp its no biggie thf gets mad tp from triple attack and double attack gear/traits. Really I dont see what the issue is. When farming in abyssea i dont even switch gear unless on a nm because they die so fast with the atmas i have equiped, and outside abyssea its almost the same unless its a NM and guess what im not loosing sleep over he 30tp i waste when i change to tp gear from treasure hunter after the first few hits.

If you don't know why losing 10~90 TP just to switch weapons, and you don't know how significantly that impacts your damage, let alone how significantly using a THF's knife impacts your damage, I cannot help you or explain it well enough, thusly i will no try.

However do understand, Every THF hear realizes, on longer fights, You can easily hit a Mob and put on full TH, then take the Knife off, the problem is Farming in places like Dynamis or Limbus where every single mob you'll want your fullest TH on, and switching on/off the knife before every kill/fight is where a problem comes in.

[noodles355]

Yes, I removed forced to wear it comment after reading a previous post of yours.

And I've said my piece? Derailing? How is it derailing if i provide a counter argument, or reasoning as to why this wont happen? Did I ever say "I don't want it to be upgradeable"? Please quote me where I said I disagree with upgrading it and I dont want it upgraded.

What's that? You can't find it? Mayhaps it's because I didn't write it. Good job on making an incorrect assumption through failing to read. I said it wont happen (not that I don't want it to) because other jobs will ask for other lower weapons to be upgradeable.

What about my Cor's Vulcan's Staff or Joyeuse or Mkris? When commenting on my previous post you just so happened to miss that out. It's awesome to debate a retracted point that has already been discussed but ignore the main reason of the post.

[Karbuncle]

And I've said my piece? Derailing? How is it derailing if i provide a counter argument, or reasoning as to why this wont happen?

1) Is how you go about "Providing the counter argument" sarcasm and abrasiveness/rude posts. You're making negative tones, rather you see it or not. Your methods are the problem not your message. Surely you see this.

2) Theres a difference between "I want my x weapon to be upgraded, Even though theres already upgrades to it" and "This weapon is gimp and theres no way to replace it, can we upgrade it".

Did I ever say "I don't want it to be upgradeable"? Please quote me where I said I disagree with upgrading it and I dont want it upgraded.

Arguing against something you want, whats your angle? Why be the negative Nancy of the thread? We know what we're asking is a longshot, but we also feels its plausible.

What's that? You can't find it? Mayhaps it's because I didn't write it. Good job on making an incorrect assumption through failing to read.

I'm actually pretty happy You said this, this is the rude abrasiveness Fire-starting BS i was talking about when i asked you not to derail, thanks for saving me the trouble of digging up examples, As you just made one in this very post.

I said it wont happen

K, You said what you wanted too. At this points its not a counter argument to the OP, its you making angry posts because i offended you.

This is not a productive area of discussion, Nothing will come of this. Surely you can see that too?

What about my Cor's Vulcan's Staff or Joyeuse or Mkris? When commenting on my previous post you just so happened to miss that out. It's awesome to debate a retracted point that has already been discussed but ignore the main reason of the post.

Despite this being another example of your "Firestarting rude" Attitude problem.

We're not asking to upgrade old weapons that are still useable into great weapons, We're asking to upgrade a bad weapon We're still forced to wear on the job, so that it doesn't hurt us any further than it needs too.

To try and clarify, Thief's Knife is both Useless and forced in our hand.

Mkris, Joyeuse, and Vulcans are not. These are different examples, as i am not a cor, I can't speak if these weapons are replaced by now, However, None of these weapons are forced in your hand by your linkshell in order to play your job. There is a large difference between those weapons being outdated, and a Weapon thats meant for 70 still forced in our hands at 90 to 99.

We want Thieves' knife because we're still forced to wear it. there is no upgrade to it, there is nothing better to equip for Treasure hunter. Even if there was, it would be a case of "Main hand new Weapon off hand THF knife". Its an outdated weapon we are indeed forced to wear if we want to be on THF.

Again, not a problem on 1 NM fights, a Big problem on Mass farming/Dynamis/Limbus style events