A Simple Request from Thieves: An upgrade to Thief's Knife.

[CapriciousOne]

You know very very little about THF and this game. When you see a topic like this that you don't really understand, instead of taking the time replying to it using your gut you should learn about the conversation we are having before you decide to take part in it and end up being wrong on a level that is rarely seen.

Seriously why are you talking to me like I care what you have to say. I just love how you assume I dont "understand" THF and this game. Personally I could argue that you and alot of people dont understand THF, this game, RPG and so on and so on but I won't because, believe it or not, I really dont like to assume people are incompetent until they prove it to me. At most my interpretation of all the TH testing stuff I have seen on here an other sites like allakazham or however that is spelled is nice but is still more or less theory and guessing because the only conclusive reason and logic of how TH really works is only really known by SE and unless they put out a full statement specifying the details and conditions of how it works, everything anybody has to say is just theory and nothing more. I havent seen any clear cut statements like this directly from the proverbial horses mouth and that is the only word that matters to me. Until that time as far as I'm concerned I could care less to be honest of how it works because to me the fact is that IT CAN BE BETTER AND SHOULD.

[noodles355]

Sorry I didnt respond sooner as I didnt see this post way down here. If one is referring to the individual damage you are dealing yes 17 dmg is alot of damage but come on most of the time you will only use the dagger for a few hits anyway before unequipping it for it to not really be that big of an issue.

If you unequip it after one strike then you will lose TP. If we even assume best case scenario for your argument: Every mob you gain 100%TP and WS once killing the mob - then you'll lose 2 rounds of TP for every WS. (TP return from WS without TK equipped, and then one round of TP with TK equipped, before unequipping again). That's a significant loss in DoT. That's best case scenario. What happens if you kill the mob with melee strikes after WS and end up with 50TP? Do you ditch the 50%TP in order to re-equip the knife? Start doing that and you sacrifice killspeed. Sacrifice killspeed and you end up killing less mobs in that time frame which will infact lead to less drops than if you'd just killed them quicker having a real DD dagger equipped fulltime.

The only time when it is effective to equip TK for the first hit and switch it out are NMs which ill take several rounds of WS to kill.

In response to the rest of your post - TH level remains at the max level. If you equip full TH gear for one hit, then unequip it (or die) then the TH remains at the highest level and TH procs will increase from the highest level.
Secondly, OA2-4 Dagger is a very bad offhand unless you're Aeolian Edge cleaving. It has horrible DPS which offsets the increased WS frequency. The problem with additional effect weapons is the randomness of their effect coupled with low proc rates on any mob that actually matters, and fodder mobs dieing so quickly that a normal Str/Att dagger would equal or better it overtime (as effect probably wont proc on every mob you kill).

In summary:
Your recent arguments seem to be centralised around the idea of "I'm happy with being mediocre". Good for you, it's your monthly fee. But this topic is obviously for people in a different boat - people who aren't happy doing the bare minimum and want to do the best they can. If you don't care to improve yourself, why are you here at all? Upgrading Thief's Knife would be that improvement that people who want to play their best would appreciate. It would also not negatively affect people like you who are happy being mediocre. With that in mind, why argue against it?

[CapriciousOne]

If you unequip it after one strike then you will lose TP. If we even assume best case scenario for your argument: Every mob you gain 100%TP and WS once killing the mob - then you'll lose 2 rounds of TP for every WS. (TP return from WS without TK equipped, and then one round of TP with TK equipped, before unequipping again). That's a significant loss in DoT. That's best case scenario. 1. What happens if you kill the mob with melee strikes after WS and end up with 50TP? Do you ditch the 50%TP in order to re-equip the knife? Start doing that and you sacrifice killspeed. Sacrifice killspeed and you end up killing less mobs in that time frame which will infact lead to less drops than if you'd just killed them quicker having a real DD dagger equipped fulltime.

2. The only time when it is effective to equip TK for the first hit and switch it out are NMs which ill take several rounds of WS to kill.

3. In response to the rest of your post - TH level remains at the max level. If you equip full TH gear for one hit, then unequip it (or die) then the TH remains at the highest level and TH procs will increase from the highest level.
Secondly, OA2-4 Dagger is a very bad offhand unless you're Aeolian Edge cleaving. It has horrible DPS which offsets the increased WS frequency. The problem with additional effect weapons is the randomness of their effect coupled with low proc rates on any mob that actually matters, and fodder mobs dieing so quickly that a normal Str/Att dagger would equal or better it overtime (as effect probably wont proc on every mob you kill).

In summary:
4. Your recent arguments seem to be centralised around the idea of "I'm happy with being mediocre". Good for you, it's your monthly fee. But this topic is obviously for people in a different boat - people who aren't happy doing the bare minimum and want to do the best they can. If you don't care to improve yourself, why are you here at all? Upgrading Thief's Knife would be that improvement that people who want to play their best would appreciate. It would also not negatively affect people like you who are happy being mediocre. With that in mind, why argue against it?

1. I think I mentioned this in an earlier post to Frank about this being a judgement call based on the situation but usually I always keep whatever left over tp for a ws then switch weapons soon after the ws so at max it is usually only like a 15 tp lost which is acceptable for me but maybe not others. Even at worst case scenario, if it >=50% i keep it even if only for healing using CW3 then switch else I keep it for the next weaponskill then switch. This however is not what is being done from reading other post they are doing exactly what you state and completely dropping that accumulated tp to switch to the knife.

2. This is basically what I am expecting to be going on anyway in all these post as regular mobs arent tough enough to survive long enough for decent amount of procs unless solo or low man anyway. Apparently this may not be happening as well according to other post if it is they are severly overpowered for the nm in question to be killing them that fast.

3. Ah good that is what I thought I just never really payed too much attention to it solo because procing is rarely an issue unless people are trying to farm on mobs extremely below thier current level. With this said now though only makes my point even more in that if you have all the gear to increase Treasure Hunter effectiveness and get a proc one can just use the tp at that point and unequip the knife for the remainder of the battle then requip for the next battle.

Now I'll be honest and fair I am a bit lazy to go through with all that is required for those occassionally attack weapons and stuff because I refuse to spend so many hours out my day camping one mob so I dont have one and wouldnt know about those weapons proc rates specifically, however other additional effect weapons I see differently. I dont know how accurate or reliable the article i read was or even where i read it, but it seems that int and mnd has some factor in procing additional effects on weapons. One of the things that lead me to this is that as RDM when dual wielding I seemed to get far more procs than I do with thief with the higher stats their and finished up trials relatively fast even without weather present, at least by my standards it was fast.

4. LOL wow you people and your interpretations are hilarious but it is ok. Ok let me try this again my arguments are based upon the following:
a. everything has a trade off
b. despite the trade offs there is a priority of one over the other.
c. A and B are know entities and the party is being conducted in a fashion that reflects the priority or goal in mind.
d. People care more about the party achieving its objective than how flashy, kick ass, and important the individual output is to the party.

Apparently that doesnt seem to be the case on most of these boards it is usually about outshining other jobs and other pure ego-centric bs. Also it is clear to me that if a mob is dying so fast that you cant even get one proc off it then there is just too much manpower on the mob to start with if obtaining the most loot is the objective as slower kills equal more procs thus more items. I am not actually against the idea as much as I am trying to establish a more productive alternative route to just making a dagger stronger. Even with a stronger dagger it still wont change the fact the effect is only good for the current mob being attacked and then the effect has to be restarted on a new mob. My argument is that instead of just a stronger dagger with only the TH effect on it, why not make it a job ability, the details of which i mentioned earlier and have the effect stay active like composure for the duration you and the party is in the zone, making weapon switching irrelevant as well as improving the overall farming rate for the party as a whole?

In any case if one isnt crazily overpowered with too many people in a party that the mob dies almost instantly and one has the other TH item which I think is O-hat or some other (I forget and havent started on it) thief knife isnt really needed anyway to be honest. Also, ( I wish i could remember where I read this stuff) TH effectiveness increases are closely tied to being able to consistently land blows on mob implying accuracy may help this to proc more often so wouldnt one want an evasion down dagger for that reason, assuming that information was accurate in any way shape or form?

Also I was wondering if more than one thief is in the party and both proc treasure hunter effectiveness levels are they exclusive to the theif or does it apply to the entire party? For example Thief A has TH3 and Thief B has TH4 ok. If Thief B procs to TH5 and later thief A also procs will the TH level remain at 5 or be increased to 6 or does Thief A need to proc again to get it up to 6 (I think I remember TH6 being possible been a while since I did any farming)? If it does increase to 6 when Thief A procs then well you can see where I am going with this hopefully.

In any case I just like to get the job done in any way shape or form and try to find ways to work within the limitations or around it if possible. I dont see that as "being happy with being mediocre" as much as trying to be as resourceful as possible and find ways to get the job done PERIOD, whether I have the best armor, weapons, main/sub combination or anything else. The bottom line is everybody is trying to have thier cake and eat it too which is to be expected I suppose but there are trade offs and concessions that need to be made at times and if lower damage for better drops is what one of those are then so be it.

[noodles355]

1. It's more than 15TP. If you read my last post which you quoted, I covered this: it's 9-15TP from your WS return, then 9TP from your attack round in thief's knife, before swapping back to a real knife - for at least 2 rounds of TP. I did state that above, you quoted it, yet ignored it. If you have excess TP at the start of a fight, what is the cut off limit? What if you have 30TP? Lose 3-4 attack rounds of TP? Or make 7-8 attack rounds with a gimp DPS weapon? Either way it's a loss in DoT resulting in slower kills which means (As has been stated many times) lower drops over time.

3. See my second point, and in fact 90% of the psots replying to you. It's only worthwhile for NMs where you WS more than 2-3 times. For fodder mobs the killspeed you lose by either fulltiming, or swapping in knife once per fight (as outlined multiple times above) will have a greater negative effect on your drops than the +1 TH will have positive. This is why all the best thiefs have stopped using Thief's Knife at all in dynamis coin farming.

4. Your little A>B>C>D thing is actually backing up our argument. People bring thf for TH for drops. Increasing killspeed by using a proper dagger = killing more mobs = getting more drops. As has been mentioned over and over again, it's a bigger increase than the reduced kill speed you suffer by equipping TK every fight. Unless you're bringing like a full party or alliance to farming fodder mobs which is a waste.

As for the rest of your post, I dont see why you needed to go off on some eletist/ego/epeen essay. It's irrelevant and just sounds like you venting and trying to justify your mediocrity.
As I said before, if you are content being mediocre then that's your perogative. It's your monthly fee, play how you want. But others of us enjoy trying to do the best we possibly can. That's our choice, paid for by our monthly fee. Who are you to bitch about it?

Your argument about "instead of making it a weapon, make it an ability" - it's another suggestion. However people have not taken issue with that. People have taken issue with the "it's not an issue, it's not a big DoT loss" statements.

As stated before, you have obviously done very little research at all, and coming into a long discussion with numerous posters having done lots of research into the game and how it works and basically going against them with no supporting arguments is annoying. "only losing 15TP", "going from 80-71 dmg is nothing" "O-hat has TH on it" - and you want us to take you seriously?
Had you taken the time to type Treasure Hunter into Wiki, you would have gotten the answers to your double-thief question, and also to the "do you need to keep it on" question. This again just shows that you have come in ehre without any research whatsoever.

Your closing paragraph continues to ignore the point people have been trying to make throughout this whole conversation. Let me bold it for you: Lowering your damage lowers your drop rate by decreasing killspeed on fodder mobs you farm. You seem to think that you need to equip Thief's Knife to increase drop rates. But you don't. Decreasing your killspeed by equipping Thief's Knife negatively effects your total drops over a period of time (for example, 2 hours in dynamis). Had you done any research at all prior to coming in here and posting, you would understand that.

Go away, do some research then come back when you know what you are talking about and people will take you seriously. If you struggle with that then ask for help, people will always be willing to offer advice to those willing to learn as long as they put in the effort. But if you're going to turn up here arguing with forum regulars and asking questions that could be found in under 1 minute on a wikia search then no one is going to care.

[CapriciousOne]

A1. It's more than 15TP. If you read my last post which you quoted, I covered this: it's 9-15TP from your WS return, then 9TP from your attack round in thief's knife, before swapping back to a real knife - for at least 2 rounds of TP. I did state that above, you quoted it, yet ignored it. If you have excess TP at the start of a fight, what is the cut off limit? What if you have 30TP? Lose 3-4 attack rounds of TP? Or make 7-8 attack rounds with a gimp DPS weapon? Either way it's a loss in DoT resulting in slower kills which means (As has been stated many times) lower drops over time.


B. 3. See my second point, and in fact 90% of the psots replying to you. It's only worthwhile for NMs where you WS more than 2-3 times. For fodder mobs the killspeed you lose by either fulltiming, or swapping in knife once per fight (as outlined multiple times above) will have a greater negative effect on your drops than the +1 TH will have positive. This is why all the best thiefs have stopped using Thief's Knife at all in dynamis coin farming.

C. 4. Your little A>B>C>D thing is actually backing up our argument. People bring thf for TH for drops. Increasing killspeed by using a proper dagger = killing more mobs = getting more drops. As has been mentioned over and over again, it's a bigger increase than the reduced kill speed you suffer by equipping TK every fight. Unless you're bringing like a full party or alliance to farming fodder mobs which is a waste.

As for the rest of your post, I dont see why you needed to go off on some eletist/ego/epeen essay. It's irrelevant and just sounds like you venting and trying to justify your mediocrity.
As I said before, if you are content being mediocre then that's your perogative. It's your monthly fee, play how you want. But others of us enjoy trying to do the best we possibly can. That's our choice, paid for by our monthly fee. Who are you to bitch about it?

D. Your argument about "instead of making it a weapon, make it an ability" - it's another suggestion. However people have not taken issue with that. People have taken issue with the "it's not an issue, it's not a big DoT loss" statements.


E. As stated before, you have obviously done very little research at all, and coming into a long discussion with numerous posters having done lots of research into the game and how it works and basically going against them with no supporting arguments is annoying. "only losing 15TP", "going from 80-71 dmg is nothing" "O-hat has TH on it" - and you want us to take you seriously?

Had you taken the time to type Treasure Hunter into Wiki, you would have gotten the answers to your double-thief question, and also to the "do you need to keep it on" question. This again just shows that you have come in ehre without any research whatsoever.

F. Your closing paragraph continues to ignore the point people have been trying to make throughout this whole conversation. Let me bold it for you: Lowering your damage lowers your drop rate by decreasing killspeed on fodder mobs you farm. You seem to think that you need to equip Thief's Knife to increase drop rates. But you don't. Decreasing your killspeed by equipping Thief's Knife negatively effects your total drops over a period of time (for example, 2 hours in dynamis). Had you done any research at all prior to coming in here and posting, you would understand that.

F. Again you are going solely from the prospective of specific drops but not overall drops which would include crap you not looking for as well. Slower kill = higher TH proc = increased rolls for drops / mob = higher drop rate. You are basing every based on a specific drop rate for a specific item when often times different people need different items even from the same mob. If that is what every body is concerned about then just say the hell with the knife altogether and just kill as many mobs as fast as possible and STFU. Then there is no need to worry about tp loss at all or upgrade it now is there?

Go away, do some research then come back when you know what you are talking about and people will take you seriously. If you struggle with that then ask for help, people will always be willing to offer advice to those willing to learn as long as they put in the effort. But if you're going to turn up here arguing with forum regulars and asking questions that could be found in under 1 minute on a wikia search then no one is going to care.

A. No I read your post correctly because the question you asked is what do I do if I have 50 TP left over and I answered that and you just misread it. Second to wind up with over 50 tp after a ws would require triple attack and your offhand hit to connect in the same attack round which is a rarity at best. On average especially at 100 tp Dancing Edge only connects 3 out of 5 hits for about 15 tp unless one is using the tp bonus+100 dagger to get max acc at only 100 tp. The other thing you miss is i generally wont swap weapons at all if i have more than say 25 tp. I only swap out weapons directly after a ws. In fact I have the swap in the same macro as the ws i tend to use. Keeping the tp you have left over in transition to a new mob would help minimize the loss in kill speed bc soon after you start the battle you could open with a DE doing 600-1000+ damge at the start of battle easily. From what i'm seeing you are assuming that TK is in the main hand when I am not and most ws damage is done with the main hand weapon which should be the higher damage weapon in the first place. If one is using DE and Evisceration Damage is already maxed out at 100tp and the remaining tp only affects accuracy/crit hit respectively

B. Exactly my point why is it being use for anything other than a NM in the first place?

C. Actually I think I said that earlier that the dagger isnt really need anyway beyond that of setting the initial value from which it starts before somebody went off on a tangent about how a thief with a higher tier TH will be used to replace you etc etc but I knew this already and is a non issue for me. I dont even use the knife anymore anyway. For me at least my inventory fills quite fast when the killspeed is reduced as I am getting more multiple drops per mob. The real issue is still what level are the mobs being killed in respect to the party members involved. at level 95 I doubt there are many mobs higher than everybody in the party which is why stuff get killed so fast bc most of the mobs being faced can actually be soloed or even duoed probably. The faster the mob dies the lower the level TH can reach which is why I suggested to reduce the killspeed in the first place to give more of a chance of multiple drops on each mob. I mean it not like in this day and age of all the updates that anybody is really hurting or having difficulty in gaining experience these day for it to matter anyway.

D. This statement was made because of one reason: I am not focusing on the single person damage output but the collective party damage output per attack round against the mob. The fact of the matter is with most parties thief will also be hasted. In addition the weapon in your main hand is primarily used to calculate ws damage and TK should be in offhand anyway making it a non issue for WS damage which the primary reason for auto attack anyway. You still gain tp at relatively the same rate so will WS at about the same rate. Most people rely on WS damage to take huge chunks of HP off a mob. In other words it is not like TK is lowering the damage output of your WS so it isnt a big loss. Also if TP is really an issue there is plenty of tp store and bonus stuff to help. I also dont hesitate to use whatever finishing moves I have to give back tp after a ws to regain lost tp as well.



E. Personally I dont give a crap how you or anybody take anything because 9 times out of 10 it wont be how I meant it anyway despite my best efforts, not that I been making much effort. However anyone takes it is fine by me.
Like i also said a person on average will only average only gain 20 or so tp after DE or evisceration unless triple attack kicks in on the offhand hit and assuming one is dual wielding that 2 or 3 attack round is only a mere what 10-15 seconds at best big whoop or more like maybe 8-12 with haste spell and gear.

F. Again you are going solely from the prospective of specific drops but not overall drops which would include crap you not looking for as well. Slower kill = higher TH proc = increased rolls for drops / mob = higher drop rate. You are basing every based on a specific drop rate for a specific item when often times different people need different items even from the same mob. If that is what every body is concerned about then just say the hell with the knife altogether and just kill as many mobs as fast as possible and STFU. Then there is no need to worry about tp loss at all or upgrade it now is there?

I have done research on it before but do I keep up to date about every development as they happen no and often times it takes forever before anyone does or I care enough to do it myself. Second I wasnt directly asking anybody anything it was more of a pondering or rhetorical question but I thank anybody who has taken the time to answer it. Often times I just dont remember what I read about the "question" being posed which is mostly just me thinking out loud.

[FrankReynolds]

A. No I read your post correctly because the question you asked is what do I do if I have 50 TP left over and I answered that and you just misread it. Second to wind up with over 50 tp after a ws would require triple attack and your offhand hit to connect in the same attack round which is a rarity at best. On average especially at 100 tp Dancing Edge only connects 3 out of 5 hits for about 15 tp unless one is using the tp bonus+100 dagger to get max acc at only 100 tp. The other thing you miss is i generally wont swap weapons at all if i have more than say 25 tp. I only swap out weapons directly after a ws. In fact I have the swap in the same macro as the ws i tend to use. Keeping the tp you have left over in transition to a new mob would help minimize the loss in kill speed bc soon after you start the battle you could open with a DE doing 600-1000+ damge at the start of battle easily. From what i'm seeing you are assuming that TK is in the main hand when I am not and most ws damage is done with the main hand weapon which should be the higher damage weapon in the first place. If one is using DE and Evisceration Damage is already maxed out at 100tp and the remaining tp only affects accuracy/crit hit respectively

B. Exactly my point why is it being use for anything other than a NM in the first place?

C. Actually I think I said that earlier that the dagger isnt really need anyway beyond that of setting the initial value from which it starts before somebody went off on a tangent about how a thief with a higher tier TH will be used to replace you etc etc but I knew this already and is a non issue for me. I dont even use the knife anymore anyway. For me at least my inventory fills quite fast when the killspeed is reduced as I am getting more multiple drops per mob. The real issue is still what level are the mobs being killed in respect to the party members involved. at level 95 I doubt there are many mobs higher than everybody in the party which is why stuff get killed so fast bc most of the mobs being faced can actually be soloed or even duoed probably. The faster the mob dies the lower the level TH can reach which is why I suggested to reduce the killspeed in the first place to give more of a chance of multiple drops on each mob. I mean it not like in this day and age of all the updates that anybody is really hurting or having difficulty in gaining experience these day for it to matter anyway.

D. This statement was made because of one reason: I am not focusing on the single person damage output but the collective party damage output per attack round against the mob. The fact of the matter is with most parties thief will also be hasted. In addition the weapon in your main hand is primarily used to calculate ws damage and TK should be in offhand anyway making it a non issue for WS damage which the primary reason for auto attack anyway. You still gain tp at relatively the same rate so will WS at about the same rate. Most people rely on WS damage to take huge chunks of HP off a mob. In other words it is not like TK is lowering the damage output of your WS so it isnt a big loss. Also if TP is really an issue there is plenty of tp store and bonus stuff to help. I also dont hesitate to use whatever finishing moves I have to give back tp after a ws to regain lost tp as well.



E. Personally I dont give a crap how you or anybody take anything because 9 times out of 10 it wont be how I meant it anyway despite my best efforts, not that I been making much effort. However anyone takes it is fine by me.
Like i also said a person on average will only average only gain 20 or so tp after DE or evisceration unless triple attack kicks in on the offhand hit and assuming one is dual wielding that 2 or 3 attack round is only a mere what 10-15 seconds at best big whoop or more like maybe 8-12 with haste spell and gear.

F. Again you are going solely from the prospective of specific drops but not overall drops which would include crap you not looking for as well. Slower kill = higher TH proc = increased rolls for drops / mob = higher drop rate. You are basing every based on a specific drop rate for a specific item when often times different people need different items even from the same mob. If that is what every body is concerned about then just say the hell with the knife altogether and just kill as many mobs as fast as possible and STFU. Then there is no need to worry about tp loss at all or upgrade it now is there?

I have done research on it before but do I keep up to date about every development as they happen no and often times it takes forever before anyone does or I care enough to do it myself. Second I wasnt directly asking anybody anything it was more of a pondering or rhetorical question but I thank anybody who has taken the time to answer it. Often times I just dont remember what I read about the "question" being posed which is mostly just me thinking out loud.

We get it. You just came in here to piss people off and start an argument. Good job. Major bonus points for slipping in the O-hat thing. That was genius. You will never win this argument, so congratulations on finding a place to forever argue and annoy. FYI, people like you who have no idea how Treasure Hunter work, and love to force their opinions on people are the reason that we have to use that piece of crap dagger, even in situations where its really not necessary.

On a funny side note, you should go to the war or sam forums and try telling them that your swapping out your Great Axe / Great Katana after every WS on war or sam to reset your TP, and see how long it takes people to start calling you names. Then explain to everyone that is just a little TP, and thiefs do it all the time, so whats the big deal?..... Bonus points for posting screen shots of peoples responses.

[Insaniac]

Seriously why are you talking to me like I care what you have to say. I just love how you assume I dont "understand" THF and this game. Personally I could argue that you and alot of people dont understand THF, this game, RPG and so on and so on but I won't because, believe it or not, I really dont like to assume people are incompetent until they prove it to me. At most my interpretation of all the TH testing stuff I have seen on here an other sites like allakazham or however that is spelled is nice but is still more or less theory and guessing because the only conclusive reason and logic of how TH really works is only really known by SE and unless they put out a full statement specifying the details and conditions of how it works, everything anybody has to say is just theory and nothing more. I havent seen any clear cut statements like this directly from the proverbial horses mouth and that is the only word that matters to me. Until that time as far as I'm concerned I could care less to be honest of how it works because to me the fact is that IT CAN BE BETTER AND SHOULD.

I'm not assuming anything about you. I can say for a fact that you don't know enough about damage math or treasure hunter to take part in this conversation and have anything but a negative impact. All you did was come in here and spout some nonsense and it got everyone riled up. You are wrong on a similar level to that of using peanut butter as tooth paste. The good news is the thread is alive again with people who all agree that you have no idea what you are talking about so maybe it will get some attention.

[noodles355]

[COLOR=#006400]A. No I read your post correctly because the question you asked is what do I do if I have 50 TP left over and I answered that and you just misread it.

You may have read it, but you misunderstood it. 50TP was one example, you replied to that one example but not to the general problem it addressed which I then further expanded upon. It was one example to show the general problem. Quite why you decided to take that as an absolute, replying to exactly 50TP, I just do not know.

On average especially at 100 tp Dancing Edge only connects 3 out of 5 hits for about 15 tp unless one is using the tp bonus+100 dagger to get max acc at only 100 tp.

Holy fuck. You are a complete moron. I'm done trying to be civil with you, you're a giant retard.

[noodles355]

For everyone else's amusement I took the liberty of quoting the most funny and retarded comments into one post for us to laugh at:

In any case if one isnt crazily overpowered with too many people in a party that the mob dies almost instantly and one has the other TH item which I think is O-hat or some other (I forget and havent started on it) thief knife isnt really needed anyway to be honest.

On average especially at 100 tp Dancing Edge only connects 3 out of 5 hits for about 15 tp unless one is using the tp bonus+100 dagger to get max acc at only 100 tp.

If one is using DE and Evisceration Damage is already maxed out at 100tp and the remaining tp only affects accuracy/crit hit respectively

The faster the mob dies the lower the level TH can reach which is why I suggested to reduce the killspeed in the first place to give more of a chance of multiple drops on each mob. I mean it not like in this day and age of all the updates that anybody is really hurting or having difficulty in gaining experience these day for it to matter anyway.

the weapon in your main hand is primarily used to calculate ws damage and TK should be in offhand anyway making it a non issue for WS damage which the primary reason for auto attack anyway. You still gain tp at relatively the same rate so will WS at about the same rate. Most people rely on WS damage to take huge chunks of HP off a mob. In other words it is not like TK is lowering the damage output of your WS so it isnt a big loss. Also if TP is really an issue there is plenty of tp store and bonus stuff to help.

Like i also said a person on average will only average only gain 20 or so tp after DE or evisceration unless triple attack kicks in on the offhand hit and assuming one is dual wielding that 2 or 3 attack round is only a mere what 10-15 seconds at best big whoop or more like maybe 8-12 with haste spell and gear.

Slower kill = higher TH proc = increased rolls for drops / mob = higher drop rate. You are basing every based on a specific drop rate for a specific item when often times different people need different items even from the same mob. If that is what every body is concerned about then just say the hell with the knife altogether and just kill as many mobs as fast as possible and STFU. Then there is no need to worry about tp loss at all or upgrade it now is there?

[TybudX]