Pray

[Vortex]

Awesome. That goes above and beyond anything I asked for, and I'm very appreciative of seeing it all sorted out. Thanks a ton.

see what sorted out, what was already known and still had nothing to do with what was being said?

[Economizer]

The Regen spells really need revamped to be honest. Meriting them is a waste these days, and unless you are toying around or not wearing your gear, they are a waste of MP.

At this point, you are a terribly geared White Mage if Regen is MP efficient for you, and letting members sit in yellow MP just to use the spell is risky behavior. Playing safe and playing MP efficient are generally the indicators of a good White Mage.

Hrmm... there was me hoping to crush that argument... but alas~

I'm somewhat disappointed you didn't include Regen in that list. It can be useful for keeping people eating poison pots or charging Sublimation at full HP, although in the second case, they should have access to the spell themselves. Without gear/merits: 8.3 HP/MP, geared/merited: 22 HP/MP; /sch 9.6 HP/MP, gear/merit/sch: 25.3 HP/MP.

Of course, there aren't many situations where waiting this out would be a good idea. Also, Stoneskin can give something like 12-17HP/MP depending on gear/sub, which is a valid choice when self healing if casting time isn't an issue, but if it is, Regen is likely to be something you don't want to cast either. I highly doubt at this point there is a lot of good reasons to cast Regen aside from the ones mentioned here by me, and the handful mentioned by SpankWustler. The math backs up any logical points that could be made.

As a final side point, I decided to see if Regen was better for a well geared Scholar using Perpetuance (15.63 HP/MP) vs the numbers you gave for a well geared White Mage casting Regen III (10.93 HP/MP) and the numbers are very clear. This makes me wonder why Scholar didn't get Regen IV, since they're more of the DOT guys then White Mage...

[Vortex]

Edit: forget it, it's not worth the trouble anymore, it feels like trying to teach a mouse to play fetch, carry on.

i'll have to accept that WHM is to hard for certain people. and these forums proved it.

[Mirage]

Why, do you disagree with mathematics?

I'm sorry, but no matter how much you disagree with 2+2 equaling 4, it will always equal 4.

[Vortex]

Why, do you disagree with mathematics?

I'm sorry, but no matter how much you disagree with 2+2 equaling 4, it will always equal 4.

Sigh. Yes, because saying Regen is not useless is disagreeing with mathmatics. why do i even bother? the math he posted was irrelvent and had NOTHING to do with my main point i was making. but reading comphrehesion is pretty hard as well,

its more like you telling me 2+2 equals 4 and i'm talking about biology.

[Jerbob]

Wow, this is a depressing read. I love Regen and it's not good to see these numbers. Regen has got to be at tip top efficiency levels or it's just not going to be worth the long casting time or risk in most situations.

I agree with the "Regen overhall" crowd. Even before I knew it was inefficient to use I had problems with Regen. Perhaps something like this:

1. Increase potency and duration linearly with Afflatus Solace and Misery stored power to a point where higher tier Regen is roughly 1.5 times the efficiency of Cure, comparing like for like in terms of gear/merits.
2. Tie Regen to Afflatus Solace in a similar way to Cure stoneskin effects - "Pause" the regen effect when the target is at full HP and either resume the effect when damage is taken, or "store" the regen ticks and restore them in a lump.
3. Reduce casting time by 25%.

Something like this would hit all of Regen's problems - (1) the efficiency, (2) the issue with people curing over the top as well as "pre-emptive regen" on tanks, and (3) the difficulty in using Regen in situations where we've got to be fast. Tying 1 and 2 to Afflatus stances keeps Regen a WHM speciality, regardless of what SCH wants everyone to believe, and provides us with more unique tools when RDM and SCH inevitably (and deservedly) get access to their Cure 4.5 or Cure V.

[Aleste]

Sigh. Yes, because saying Regen is not useless is disagreeing with mathmatics. why do i even bother? the math he posted was irrelvent and had NOTHING to do with my main point i was making. but reading comphrehesion is pretty hard as well,

I really hate writing long posts, so I'll be blunt.

Cure 3, and cure 5 in misery are vastly more efficient than Regen 4 WITH MERITS. In solace cure 3 is 1.5 TIMES more efficient, and cure 5 is TWICE as efficient. This is NOT accounting for the time taken to cast the appropriate spells, and the decreased time you'll spend mid-cast where you cannot quickly react to any changes in the situation.

Regen spells only ever had the efficiency going for them at the time of release. At the time they were the most efficient healing spell around, however its efficiency has barely increased with the release of Orison Mitts +2. However, with the release of Afflatus Solace, Orison Pantaloons +2 and Orison Bliaud +2 this has changed. Hell, there have been more cure cast time- gear released with each passing version, pushing us towards better, quicker and more efficient cure spells.

Over curing has become a bit of a null issue in correct gear, even if you over cure by ~50% with cure 5 in the above mathematics you will STILL end up with a higher efficiency than Regen 4 (with gear AND merits).

Don't get me wrong, Regen spells DO have a very VERY rare situational use and the only MP EFFICIENT time to cast it is when you're stark naked or when you have (specific pieces of) gear stripped from you.

i'll have to accept that WHM is to hard for certain people. and these forums proved it.

Yes, you are a lost cause... almost every poster in this thread seems to have a better understanding of white mage than you.

[Mirage]

Sigh. Yes, because saying Regen is not useless is disagreeing with mathmatics. why do i even bother? the math he posted was irrelvent and had NOTHING to do with my main point i was making. but reading comphrehesion is pretty hard as well,

its more like you telling me 2+2 equals 4 and i'm talking about biology.

Well then, when is regen useful? When you want a fast cure? No. When you want an MP efficient cure? Not really, with decent gear, it is less MP efficient. When you want to be able to quickly react to changing situations? No, regen has a much longer cast time than Cure spells, even before you add gear/merits that reduce cure casting time

Please explain in a convincing manner when it is that regen is a better choice, because you haven't properly done so yet.

If all the effects of the Regen spells are done better with other spells, then there is no word that fits regen better than "useless".

If perhaps Regen spells were nearly instant cast, with a very short recast timer, or at least a *single* property that was better than the cure spells, then it could be situationally useful again.

[SpankWustler]

Sigh. Yes, because saying Regen is not useless is disagreeing with mathmatics. why do i even bother? the math he posted was irrelvent and had NOTHING to do with my main point i was making. but reading comphrehesion is pretty hard as well,

its more like you telling me 2+2 equals 4 and i'm talking about biology.

Since you seem to be incapable of expressing yourself through any method of communication other than juvenile insults, I'll just guess at the idea you so desperately want to express through adult language.

Are you trying to say, "Regen is useful when you really, really want everyone's HP to stay white without casting a lot of Cure spells" ?

[Mirage]

We should get a regen 5 with a 30-35 hp/mp ratio. That would be kinda cool I guess. Oh and of course accessionable.