Pray

[Mirage]

you should, but it's actually a better idea to use relic pants not af3 legs, the +20 to barspells will help more often then a very low set proc chance, i use +1 relic legs while the rest of the slots are af3 debatable with af3 hands vs augur.

No i mean, when I get the AF3 pants upgraded, that's when I'll start using as much MP on a cure 5 as a refresh 4. When using barspells, i would swap in the appropriate items anyway, of course. I don't have relic pants anyway cause i think dynamis is terribly boring.

[Aleste]

...
"Over curing" is using healing in excess of what the target needs to get back to full hp's, which can happen just as easilly with regen as with cures. Once again the mp difference between curing and using regen is negligible if the caster has af3+2 pants. If the person that I just cured gets hit again before the Solace stoneskin effect wears off then I just blew your regen mp efficiency numbers out of the water. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand.

The reason that the merits are important to the conversation is that without them regen doesn't get anywhere close to cure V's potency, and without that efficiency number to hang your hat on the regen argument becomes laughable. So besides just arguing the efficiency numbers it also becomes a question of opportunity cost of getting regen merits vs barspell merits.

And just for sake of completeness, once you start comparing mp cost of regen with a hp healed value of only 850 it gets blown out of the water by cure spells.

Ok, to sum up:
AF3+2 pants makes the mp efficiency negligible between the two. If the solace stoneskin is on when the person is next hit then it pushes the mp efficiency argument in favor of curing.
The mp efficiency argument can only be made if the person takes regen merits over barspell merits. Otherwise cure blows regen out.
Cure heals all the hp's instantly, and it casts much faster then regen.

So with that concise set of reasons that cure is better than regen, I'm asking you what you are specifically fighting that makes regen such a useful tool. Educate me.

^Just a little math to support this;

Regen IV w/ full merits and gear (relic body+af3+2 hands) heals 975HP over 75 seconds for 82MP, with ~ 4.5 second casting time.
This gives an approximation (assuming no overcure) of 11.89 HP/MP.

Cure V w/ appropriate gear (~+49%pot, capped skill+merits, +70MND gear) heals 1,092HP w/ 382HP stoneskin for 68MP, with ~ 1.3 second casting time.

Assuming no cure and stoneskin, 5.61 HP/MP
Assuming full cure and no stoneskin, 16.06 HP/MP
Assuming full cure and stoneskin, 21.68 HP/MP


Of course personal mileage may vary depending on gear and the quantity of overhealing...

[Vortex]

^Just a little math to support this;

Regen IV w/ full merits and gear (relic body+af3+2 hands) heals 975HP over 75 seconds for 82MP, with ~ 4.5 second casting time.
This gives an approximation (assuming no overcure) of 11.89 HP/MP.

Cure V w/ appropriate gear (~+49%pot, capped skill+merits, +70MND gear) heals 1,092HP w/ 382HP stoneskin for 68MP, with ~ 1.3 second casting time.

Assuming no cure and stoneskin, 5.61 HP/MP
Assuming full cure and no stoneskin, 16.06 HP/MP
Assuming full cure and stoneskin, 21.68 HP/MP


Of course personal mileage may vary depending on gear and the quantity of overhealing...

I didn't bother anymore with her posts, it is apprently that this player will stay a waterd down, abyssea addicted whm, who does not understand the full aspect of whm, it is actually my fault for thinking whms actually take the job serious enough, and keeps trying to explain shit to me that i have already known, so with that being said i didn't bother reading anymore of her posts, as once i started it was just the same BS. if he/she wants to stay a standerd i only use half my abilites whm then so be, just thankful i don't have to watch thier display. the most retarded thing is he/she keeps comparing regen and actual cures to me like i don't know the ####ing diffrence. this player is beyond my help. some things are just better left alone.


So Ahrana if you are reading, i am done with you. Never had a problem curing, never had a problem using regen. if you need to explain to me the shit i already knew before you probably even leveld whm, then it is just turning into a insult, when you want to actually know some pointers you can speak to me. but for now, i am not getting into this.

once again

REGEN IS FOR GRADUAL HP RECOVERY AT SET INTERVEALS WHEN USED APPROPRIATLY CAN SAVE YOU MP

CURING IS A SET INSTANT HP RECOVERY Good god are you that retarded that you don't know the diffrence? it is clear you are not yet advanced at whm yet to understand these type of advanced actions, come back when you better understand the job.

oh and a bit of advice, you may want to stay away from things outside abyssea as it may be to difficult for you to handle.

[Ahrana]

I didn't bother anymore with her posts, it is apprently that this player will stay a waterd down, abyssea addicted whm, who does not understand the full aspect of whm, it is actually my fault for thinking whms actually take the job serious enough, and keeps trying to explain shit to me that i have already known, so with that being said i didn't bother reading anymore of her posts, as once i started it was just the same BS. if he/she wants to stay a standerd i only use half my abilites whm then so be, just thankful i don't have to watch thier display. the most retarded thing is he/she keeps comparing regen and actual cures to me like i don't know the ####ing diffrence. this player is beyond my help. some things are just better left alone.


So Ahrana if you are reading, i am done with you. Never had a problem curing, never had a problem using regen. if you need to explain to me the shit i already knew before you probably even leveld whm, then it is just turning into a insult, when you want to actually know some pointers you can speak to me. but for now, i am not getting into this.

once again

REGEN IS FOR GRADUAL HP RECOVERY AT SET INTERVEALS WHEN USED APPROPRIATLY CAN SAVE YOU MP

CURING IS A SET INSTANT HP RECOVERY Good god are you that retarded that you don't know the diffrence? it is clear you are not yet advanced at whm yet to understand these type of advanced actions, come back when you better understand the job.

oh and a bit of advice, you may want to stay away from things outside abyssea as it may be to difficult for you to handle.

All I ask for is an example of when you would actually get utility out of regen, and all I get in response is a bunch of knee jerk insults. It's like trying to explain a great axe X-hit build to a die hard rampage warrior.

I'll go QQ to myself, but I won't hold it against you. I'll start waving to you in game so you know we can still be friends.

[Vortex]

All I ask for is an example of when you would actually get utility out of regen, and all I get in response is a bunch of knee jerk insults. It's like trying to explain a great axe X-hit build to a die hard rampage warrior.

I'll go QQ to myself, but I won't hold it against you. I'll start waving to you in game so you know we can still be friends.

Ok, fine, (even tho i already explained it) here is example so simple even you will understand.

You cure someone, immedinatly regen them after, that is one example.

you are standing there for more then 30 seconds-1 minute not curing, but they occasionaly take damage you regen. it
will refill them before they actually take damage again. that is another example.

like i already said it, it is situational, i never once said "hey, regen all the time every battle"

ONCE AGAIN, this is MAINLY for outside use. in abyssea it really dosn't matter since MP is near limitess

regen is obviously NOT recommended for mobs that attacks furiously and with very little delay.

You are saying "well regen is useless" which is not true.

i am VERY critical of other whms. i am not priding my self being the best by any means, but i have played this job long enough to understand how it works, even if my words do not seem "nice" but doing things liek solo healing dynamis Alliances and trying to keep more then 6 people alive has FORCED me to find ways to save mp, and regen helps tremendously at the right sitations, yes it isn't always needed, but it is there and it helps.

there, that is as nice as i'm going to be about it only because your post wasn't filled with "scream regen sucks scream"

so there you go. and sure, go ahead and wave, i actually would like to see your set, just to even see if you are a comeptent whm one day.

[SpankWustler]

You're still missing the point, which is exactly the same MP efficiency that you're talking about. Unless you're half-naked due to being in Salvage, a good Cure spell will likely be more MP efficient than a Regen spell due to Orison Pantaloons +2 and Orison Bliault +2. This is especially true for a fellow without Regen merits.

Nobody is saying that Regen spells are bad. Cure spells are just super-awesome now, and Regen spells have obviously not received the same benefits. This has reduced the usefulness of Regen spells greatly by making Cure spells relatively more useful.

You would have been right if it were this time last year. You're not right now, and you're yelling at a math equation.

[Vortex]

You're still missing the point, which is exactly the same MP efficiency that you're talking about. Unless you're half-naked due to being in Salvage, a good Cure spell will likely be more MP efficient than a Regen spell due to Orison Pantaloons +2 and Orison Bliault +2. This is especially true for a fellow without Regen merits.

Nobody is saying that Regen spells are bad. Cure spells are just super-awesome now, and Regen spells have obviously not received the same benefits. This has reduced the usefulness of Regen spells greatly by making Cure spells relatively more useful.

You would have been right if it were this time last year. You're not right now, and you're yelling at a math equation.

oh ok, i guess if something has unremovable poison and bio you'll continue to cure spam instead of canceling it out or greatly reducing the damage tick the person is taking, i am not going to keep going through this, it's like trying to explain toa BLM why the other elements are useful to blm aside thunder and ice only, i don't expect WHMs to be know how to fully play it and i never will, but this is pricicly why 99% of whms cannot survive outside abyssea. i guess this is just one of those problems ill have to let go. and as the old saying goes, if you want something done right, you have to do it your self.

[SpankWustler]

oh ok, i guess if something has unremovable poison and bio you'll continue to cure spam instead of canceling it out or greatly reducing the damage tick the person is taking, i am not going to keep going through this, it's like trying to explain toa BLM why the other elements are useful to blm aside thunder and ice only, i don't expect WHMs to be know how to fully play it and i never will, but this is pricicly why 99% of whms cannot survive outside abyssea. i guess this is just one of those problems ill have to let go. and as the old saying goes, if you want something done right, you have to do it your self.

Whether HP loss is coming from Bio, Poison, melee hits, spells, or some individual whimsically using a Frenzy Sallet in his or her idle set; that does not effect the MP efficiency of Regen spells VS various Cure spells.

I primarily use Regen when it is the most MP efficient choice available, since the spell line has almost no benefits other than MP efficiency. At present date and time, a Regen spell is not often the most MP efficient spell so I rarely use it.

There are times other than "It's Salvage and I'm not wearing any pants." when the Regen line can be useful, but they are few and far between. The spell line is no longer the staple which it once was.

[Vortex]

Whether HP loss is coming from Bio, Poison, melee hits, spells, or some individual whimsically using a Frenzy Sallet in his or her idle set; that does not effect the MP efficiency of Regen spells VS various Cure spells.

I primarily use Regen when it is the most MP efficient choice available, since the spell line has almost no benefits other than MP efficiency. At present date and time, a Regen spell is not often the most MP efficient spell so I rarely use it.

There are times other than "It's Salvage and I'm not wearing any pants." when the Regen line can be useful, but they are few and far between. The spell line is no longer the staple which it once was.

If you say so. like i said, i don't expect much out of others whms, so to each his own. i consider this matter closed. Regen should never be underestimated, period.

[Economizer]

that does not effect the MP efficiency of Regen spells VS various Cure spells.

SpankWustler, you can say this again and again and you will continue to get the answer that you are a terrible White Mage that doesn't understand and can't survive outside Abyssea, despite evidence to the contrary. You might even get called names over it, like Ahrana did. At this point, we're clearly explaining a clear point and being told in rude and abusive language that we are bad White Mages. Just keep preaching the math and ignore dismissive people.