Thanks for Temper SE

[Romanova]

I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHO IS WHITTLING THESE DEERS SO I CAN REPORT THEM TO PETA














Yes I know you meant whittle a deer out of wood, but I totally read it as you stabbing a deer with a power tool lol

[DebbieGibson]

Really? I thought the round peg, square hole was a rather cliche metaphor.

I though everyone's heard that expression at least once.

I'm sure there's some people that haven't heard it one single time.

[SpankWustler]

People dismiss any situation that doesn't involve fighting the elder spawn of Cthulhu as "trash mobs" that don't matter. But we still have to fight these mobs for various reasons, such as farming loot, getting experience points, or even clearing out threats before a bigger fight. Does the gameplay we get from doing this evoke the image of jobs when literally fighting a giant enemy crab strapped to a mountain? No, but fighting these mobs is still a legitimate part of the game.

This is a good point. It doesn't make sense to dismiss certain types of content just because they're easy. I just think it's also true that the strengths, weaknesses, and straight-up differences that different jobs possess are more evident against more challenging content.

If Temper is actually potent then I certainly wouldn't complain about a Red Mage engaging normal monsters in Abyssea, bats and stuff in Einherjar, lower level monsters in Dynamis, and other things that are workable with one less back-line bro and one more bro hitting things with things. The capability to do this well might even add more depth to the job for people who felt like making a decent melee set.

Here's the thing that grates my gonad, though. Some of the people who desperately want Red Mage to hit things with things make weird arguments with unrealistic goals in mind. Suggestions like "No more buffs than can be cast on others! Down with all spells useful when fighting anything above Very Tough! Something something 'real Red Mages' something something!" run counter to Red Mage remaining an enjoyable job for the majority of people who play it.

A lot of my friends leveled Red Mage as their first job, and not just because it was so useful back in the day. They like the idea of using Black Magic and White Magic. They like having Dia II, Haste, and cures when with melee. They like having lesser nukes, Gravity, and Refresh when with mages. Sometimes, they even like having the option to melee weak monsters to death, which no other job with a decent selection of Black Magic can do. They like that these abilities make Red Mage great in almost any situation. They enjoy the job for what it is and what it does.

Temper as-is is not an inappropriate spell for Red Mage by any means, it's right in line with en-spells. It just confounds me that people who are jubilant not to have the option to cast Temper on others presume to speak for everyone who puts on a red pair of red pants. Plenty of people really like the job as-is.

[SpankWustler]

Some people, like Saevel and Duelle, call that settling, making do, or other not as pleasant things. I call it being pragmatic. Final Fantasy XI presents you, the player, with a toolkit: The job system. It's up to the player to determine what tool(s) are best for any given job, and how they are best used. If, for some reason, the players insist on being able to whittle a deer with a power drill and circular saw because "that's just what power drills do" and they feel like it, there is only so much that can be done about it. Personally, I'd much rather whittle a deer with a pocket knife.

The only thing wrong with this analogy is that whittling a deer using a power drill and a circular saw sounds like it would be amazing. Well, once I learned how to do it with the three remaining fingers on my one remaining hand.

Still, it would be worth it!

[Greatguardian]

Ha, that does sound fun really. I would not envy the person who had to clean up the inevitable mess though!

@DebbieGibson, I'm flattered, thank you .

[Economizer]

Thank you.

Sometimes, they even like having the option to melee weak monsters to death, which no other job with a decent selection of Black Magic can do.

Hey! Dark Knights have Stun, Sleep, Absorb-TP!

Temper as-is is not an inappropriate spell for Red Mage by any means, it's right in line with en-spells. It just confounds me that people who are jubilant not to have the option to cast Temper on others presume to speak for everyone who puts on a red pair of red pants. Plenty of people really like the job as-is.

I have mixed feelings about this. First, not being able to cast it on others is a message on par with making the magian clubs White Mage only. Then, it sucks that Red Mages don't get another chance at buffing other jobs. But would it be AOE if they could? Probably not, considering that the only AOE Red Mage gets is "keep the mobs awake and kill the party-ga!" Still, on that note, if it isn't AOE, it will devolve to every party situation being an endless, soul-crushing cycle of buffs that make it so you can never put out decent melee numbers.

I prefer the currently planned implementation considering the risks of other implementations, but it would definitely serve both meleeing with a Red Mage and being a buffer/enfeebler if the spell was AOE, or had an AOE version Red Mage could use.

No offense to anyone with this next bit, I just like the name:

Temper Tantrum (RDM Lv. 95)
Grants the ability to occasionally attack twice to party members in Area of Effect.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Hey! Dark Knights have Stun, Sleep, Absorb-TP!

Black magic or Dark magic?!

[saevel]

You know, my recent foray into RDM/DRK has proven that it's quite effect for both melee and casting on big nasties. (Just bring echo's)

The original purpose was they needed things stunned and I'm an epic stunner. I had also just got my Almace and we decided to put the two together and see what happens. In the tank PT, keeping Refresh II on main healers, and refreshing the PLD's as need be. Super buffing myself, throwing out Spot Cure IV's on anyone in the party who wasn't a tank, and sometimes on the tanks if they suddenly hit red / deep-orange HP. Keeping Enspell II on and whacking away, CDCing whenever possible. It actually worked out pretty well, LR lasts 3 min now and is a +15% attack boost, SE is -8% HP but +5% damage on each hit, not as nice as DRK main but as a RDM I can ride it the full 60s without fear. The other "DRK" spells were so-so, having sh!t dark magic skill really hurts their effects, so probably not worth using but I did test them out a bit. Where their effective is if you have to sit on the sidelines with everyone as the Tank + THF build TH, the just spam Absorb spells, doesn't matter if they land all the time or not, You'll build plenty of TP that way along with reducing the mobs stats a little. When the kill order was given I'd let out a LRSE CDC, got some pretty nice numbers that way (1500~2000 usually).

Overall was impressed with the combo, not as offensive as /WAR and /NIN, but more utility and allows us to stun sh!t that needs stunning.

[cidbahamut]

All I heard was "I don't wanna /BLM, I wanna feed the mob TP". Out of curiosity what were you fighting?

[Romanova]

Might I ask if you actually parsed the results to see what your DoT was? I doubt it was anything close to the other melees if you were doing all the other things you were doing (refresh/selfbuffs/cures)