Thanks for Temper SE

[saevel]

Nope stopped parsing once FFXI stopped being about "who does the most damage". At this point in the game, dealing damage is easy, surviving the NM is now the hard part. Hell most of the fight is a PLD and a THF or two on the NM with everyone off to the side. Once TH 9~10 is build the kill order is given and the NM dies 30~90 seconds later.

This idea of who can beat the hardest on a stone wall with an infinite amount of HP no longer works, heck it only worked for "merits" which has since become a non issue.

[Rayik]

Really? I thought the round peg, square hole was a rather cliche metaphor.

I though everyone's heard that expression at least once.

Honestly, I think that comparison is pretty far off. We're not trying to advocate SCH's swinging greataxes or something else completely out of left field, we're wanting the job to do what the job is advertised to do, and expand on it's capabilities as a whole.

It's a part of the job's "toolkit", like it or not, and if people like GreatGaurdian only play for mathematical perfection and doing what's he's told, then that's fine for him. If you enjoy mage-only, then great! Continue playing how you enjoy, nobody is taking it away from you. Some of us have a different style of play, that should be just as valid, seeing as how we're using "tools" from the same "toolkit."

SE gives us powerful weapons, decent armor, and a plethora of self-only melee buffs; we just want them to be worth a damn. Is that really asking so much?

As has been said a few hundred times in this thread, YES! MeleeRDM in the current form of FFXI is "suboptimal." Hence why we are striving for a fix to an existing facet of the job we enjoy playing. Temper is just one a many tools we have for melee. It just so happens most of our tools don't work. :\

[cidbahamut]

Honestly, I think that comparison is pretty far off. We're not trying to advocate SCH's swinging greataxes or something else completely out of left field, we're wanting the job to do what the job is advertised to do, and expand on it's capabilities as a whole.

Relevant: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rune_Chopper
Clearly we need more Scholars wielding Great Axes.

[Rayik]

Relevant: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rune_Chopper
Clearly we need more Scholar wielding Great Axes.

LOL wow, I didn't even realize that SCH was on that. Good find!

[Quetzacoatl]

Instead of jamming a square peg into a round hole and demanding that the hole be changed to a square shape, some people just go grab a round peg instead.

Or you can go bold by grabbing a jigsaw/router and shaving the square peg into a circle peg.

Just sayin'. 8D

[Rayik]

Or, for you magey-mage type RDM's out there, if you want to talk about "optimal" "efficient" and "prudent", why would a party worry about forcing a "hybrid peg" into a "specialist hole", when they can just get a "specialist peg." Okay, those metaphors are awful, but get the point across.

For as much as people talk down about meleeRDM's "sub optimal" nature, I find it hilariously ironic many of the same people don't see how "sub optimal" they are by just being RDM in the first place.

Let's say I'm some random player building a party to go take down some big bad NM that you happen to need dead too, for whatever reason(gear, atma, whatever). Why on earth am I going to pick a RDM over a WHM, BLM, or BLU? What makes mage-only play style so special, that any other actual specialist job can't just replace you with?

Instead of jamming a square peg into a round hole and demanding that the hole be changed to a square shape, some people just go grab a round peg instead.

Really, I think we were the round peg for a special round hole(that sounds so wrong), but over time, the wood has warped and doesn't fit anymore. We just want to restore what was there in the first place.

[Economizer]

Black magic or Dark magic?!

Well Sleep is actually Enfeebling Magic... uh...

Dark Knight can get Impact! That's elemental! It counts!

And technically it is all Black Magic! D:

[saevel]

Rayik,

About the only thing RDM currently offers groups is Refresh II and Dia III. Everything else can either be done better, or looks cool but is otherwise useless. CoolButInefficient

And when I say useless I mean they will have absolutely zero effect on the outcome of any group battle. You can remove them entirely and the group will still have the same results. Anything that ~might~ of had an effect on the outcome SE will make the monster immune to or otherwise incapable of being harmed by it. Even look at what they did to Saboteur, double the power of Slow II or Dia III was monstrously powerful, so they nerfed it (a 42% boost to everyone's attack made lots of NM battles a joke).

In fact I think that defines the RDM concept in general CoolButInefficient.

[Romanova]

Nope stopped parsing once FFXI stopped being about "who does the most damage". At this point in the game, dealing damage is easy, surviving the NM is now the hard part. Hell most of the fight is a PLD and a THF or two on the NM with everyone off to the side. Once TH 9~10 is build the kill order is given and the NM dies 30~90 seconds later.

This idea of who can beat the hardest on a stone wall with an infinite amount of HP no longer works, heck it only worked for "merits" which has since become a non issue.

you were the one that came in here saying it was effective. Parsing shows if that is actually true. Or would you prefer we go back to 2005 where we still though melee sucked and blm were WTF awesome because they casted a spell once per fight but that spell did super damage?


Basically, you don't have to parse, you don't have to care about your "l33t" DD. But it's rather silly for you to come in and post that you did good damage without any proof to back it up.

[Rayik]

Rayik,

About the only thing RDM currently offers groups is Refresh II and Dia III. Everything else can either be done better, or looks cool but is otherwise useless. CoolButInefficient

And when I say useless I mean they will have absolutely zero effect on the outcome of any group battle. You can remove them entirely and the group will still have the same results. Anything that ~might~ of had an effect on the outcome SE will make the monster immune to or otherwise incapable of being harmed by it. Even look at what they did to Saboteur, double the power of Slow II or Dia III was monstrously powerful, so they nerfed it (a 42% boost to everyone's attack made lots of NM battles a joke).

In fact I think that defines the RDM concept in general CoolButInefficient.

Exactly my point! I won't argue that our mage side is certainly viewed in higher regard than melee, and has a lot more uses, but if anyone is going to pull the "optimal" card, they are on the wrong forum altogether. Hybrids can't replace specialists, no not even mages.