Thanks for Temper SE

[saevel]

you were the one that came in here saying it was effective. Parsing shows if that is actually true. Or would you prefer we go back to 2005 where we still though melee sucked and blm were WTF awesome because they casted a spell once per fight but that spell did super damage?


Basically, you don't have to parse, you don't have to care about your "l33t" DD. But it's rather silly for you to come in and post that you did good damage without any proof to back it up.

Except when the "fight" part of the fight is 30s, parsed data would mean absolutely nothing other then to determine Accuracy / Defense and such stats of the NM. Seriously, building TH takes longer on the NM then unleashing on it. So the argument of "deal optimal damage to make fight shorter" doesn't work. Next time I'm at event killer mass mobs I'll parse it, but on NM's it's just not worth it. Especially when the person with the highest "damage" will the PLD and THF's who are on it all the time.

[Romanova]

Except when the "fight" part of the fight is 30s, parsed data would mean absolutely nothing other then to determine Accuracy / Defense and such stats of the NM. Seriously, building TH takes longer on the NM then unleashing on it. So the argument of "deal optimal damage to make fight shorter" doesn't work. Next time I'm at event killer mass mobs I'll parse it, but on NM's it's just not worth it. Especially when the person with the highest "damage" will the PLD and THF's who are on it all the time.

that's when you start creating controlled situations so you can parse to actually show some data. Basically, if you've got no data on how good it is, a lot of people just aren't going to believe you (or shouldn't).

[SpankWustler]

You make a valid point about the parsed data, if I'm right in thinking you're in a large group. One weapon skill and a dozen hits on each monster wouldn't make a very informative data set. I'd like to know which monsters your group is tanking with a Paladin that are squishy enough for a Red Mage to melee, though.

I don't get how anybody can think Red Mage isn't awesome in the back lines. The idea isn't to have unique spells no one else can can cast, it's to have access to a huge variety of spells all the time. Currently, some small groups prefer it over White Mage for Salvage, Limbus and similar content. Not because of Refresh II, but because those enemies are rarely a danger at 90 and stuff like Dia III and Blizzard IV really speed things up.

Red Mage wins out in these situations not by being a better healer, but by being more versatile through use of enfeebling and elemental magic. To me, that's the job finding it's niche perfectly.

[Supersun]

Red Mage wins out in Salvage because Phalanx II.

[Helel]

You "can" do without refresh II, you "can" do without 198% duration haste, you "can" do without any DD whatsoever and just have an aegis PLD swing at something for ages. You "can" do without a WHM if you choose to bring a battalion of cure IV. The list goes on. Just because you can do without something doesn't make it useless; in fact its utility isn't hindered in the slightest. This game, and any game really, is all about efficiency, and RDM will make your group more efficient. There is no other job with refresh II. That alone will make your mages more efficient. Dia 3 is essentially a +15% attack boost to all physical damage.

[Supersun]

This game, and any game really, is all about efficiency, and RDM will make your group more efficient. There is no other job with refresh II. That alone will make your mages more efficient. Dia 3 is essentially a +15% attack boost to all physical damage.

So why aren't you inviting a Bard instead?

[saevel]

that's when you start creating controlled situations so you can parse to actually show some data. Basically, if you've got no data on how good it is, a lot of people just aren't going to believe you (or shouldn't).

That is not what you asked, you asked for parsed data from the NM fights I did as RDM/DRK. I'm not stopping the shell to gather data, we don't have time to screw around, too much to do, to little time to do it in. I've tried to gather what I could but it was worthless, varied dramatically from fight to fight (the RDM and all the regular DDs) and the "best" DD's were the PLD's and THF's, every single time. This is one of those things that theory crafting works better then parsing.

Plus I wasn't there as RDM/DRK for melee DD, I was there because we needed things stunned. My assigned roles were Refresh II on PLD x 2 / WHM, Slow II on the NM's and Dia III to speed up the fights. Instead of standing in the back as RDM/BLM doing these things I came RDM/DRK in a melee setup to do these things. Got enough TP so that when the kill order is given I would run forward and LRSE CDC then whack away with everyone else, usually only long enough to get a single WS off before the monster exploded.

Also you realize you realize I'd be "competing" against other Emp wielders, and no matter how much I tweak my build I'll never hit what I could on BLU, much less what the WARs SAMs, DRKs and MNKs hit with their crazy gear.

[Romanova]

I've tried to gather what I could but it was worthless, varied dramatically from fight to fight

how?

You think I'm bashing you and I'm really not, but you come in trying to claim something is decent and when I ask for something more than just "hey I hit some nice WS" then you get all bent out of shape and can't give any answer to it.


I just simply can't believe that if you are curing/hasting/refreshing like you stated that rdm sub anything is going to be worth mentioning at all.

Basically I'm asking proof of your claims that you made it so it was "decent" because I simply don't believe it.

[Greatguardian]

If you have so much to do and so little time to do it, try not bringing so many people to the same NM that you have people sitting around on the sidelines sucking each other's lollipops half the time instead of being productive. Also 2 Paladins.

Edit: Can't even tell what content that's supposed to be on from any of your posts. Are we talking Voidwatch or Abyssea or what?

[SpankWustler]

Edit: Can't even tell what content that's supposed to be on from any of your posts. Are we talking Voidwatch or Abyssea or what?

I'm attempting to use my mystic powers of divination to determine what he's fighting, since he's not mentioning it. Give me a moment to connect with the spirit world.

The monster was described as a "big nasty". Stun was needed. Procs were needed. The main form of damage was apparently physical, with the monster possibly resisting magical damage. It was possibly annoying for a melee job to tank, but I'm less confident of this. The house of Aquarius is currently aligned with the space station. These chicken bones are telling me that I'm a fat loser who ate a dozen hot wings for dinner last night.

I assume he was fighting Apadamek with an outside chance of Orthus if in Abyssea. I don't have enough experience to make a guess about which VoidWatch NM it could be, but something in Abyssea seems more likely with the current information, particularly the time frame in which the monster died after being engaged.

Of course, there's always a chance he's about to say "We were fighting Sobek, the deadliest of all Bugards!" and I'll fall out of my chair laughing.