Thanks for Temper SE

[SpankWustler]

People dismiss any situation that doesn't involve fighting the elder spawn of Cthulhu as "trash mobs" that don't matter. But we still have to fight these mobs for various reasons, such as farming loot, getting experience points, or even clearing out threats before a bigger fight. Does the gameplay we get from doing this evoke the image of jobs when literally fighting a giant enemy crab strapped to a mountain? No, but fighting these mobs is still a legitimate part of the game.

This is a good point. It doesn't make sense to dismiss certain types of content just because they're easy. I just think it's also true that the strengths, weaknesses, and straight-up differences that different jobs possess are more evident against more challenging content.

If Temper is actually potent then I certainly wouldn't complain about a Red Mage engaging normal monsters in Abyssea, bats and stuff in Einherjar, lower level monsters in Dynamis, and other things that are workable with one less back-line bro and one more bro hitting things with things. The capability to do this well might even add more depth to the job for people who felt like making a decent melee set.

Here's the thing that grates my gonad, though. Some of the people who desperately want Red Mage to hit things with things make weird arguments with unrealistic goals in mind. Suggestions like "No more buffs than can be cast on others! Down with all spells useful when fighting anything above Very Tough! Something something 'real Red Mages' something something!" run counter to Red Mage remaining an enjoyable job for the majority of people who play it.

A lot of my friends leveled Red Mage as their first job, and not just because it was so useful back in the day. They like the idea of using Black Magic and White Magic. They like having Dia II, Haste, and cures when with melee. They like having lesser nukes, Gravity, and Refresh when with mages. Sometimes, they even like having the option to melee weak monsters to death, which no other job with a decent selection of Black Magic can do. They like that these abilities make Red Mage great in almost any situation. They enjoy the job for what it is and what it does.

Temper as-is is not an inappropriate spell for Red Mage by any means, it's right in line with en-spells. It just confounds me that people who are jubilant not to have the option to cast Temper on others presume to speak for everyone who puts on a red pair of red pants. Plenty of people really like the job as-is.

[Tamoa]

To be quite frank: Yes, RDMs have a shit load of things to buff everyone with (including self) but, I don't understand why SE doesn't give us some sort of MAX MP Trait. We have so much shit to cast, with so very little MP. (I'm talking about outside of Abyssea events, mind you). I would love to consider a RDM a buffer, if SE would give us more MP to cast more spells with. Or give us a Job Trait 'Cut spell MP Cost by half' or something along those lines.

I don't know how much MP all the other RDMs have but I have around 1k with mine. And it does in fact drain MP to cast every single buff spell for every single person. Any RDM would know this. It's a strain on us. Plus, I don't need to emphasize that we also Enfeeble and Heal. Even with Convert it's bad. And adding more and more spells for RDMs to cast...yeah.....no comment.

Not sure if serious. :/

[Shiyo]

I can't run out of mp on rdm unless I'm healing people subbing war as a spongy job vs T-VT mobs outside abyssea or chain nuking like a psycho o_O

[Greatguardian]

Contrary to popular talking points, I doubt anyone's ego is fearful of being bruised by a buff to Red Mage melee. If melee'ing on Red Mage was actually beneficial and more efficient than not melee'ing at some point in the game, I'm sure myself and others would have no problem doing so (and it is, on anything EP or below, in which case myself and others do melee). The discussion has never really been about which way should be better, but rather what is most prudent to do in the given situation.

Melee'ing on anything above EM on Red Mage doesn't work as is, straight up. The only real difference here is that some people wish for the game to change to suit what they feel is the only correct vision for Red Mage as a class, while others are willing to mold themselves and their playstyles to function best within the game as it is. Instead of jamming a square peg into a round hole and demanding that the hole be changed to a square shape, some people just go grab a round peg instead.

Some people, like Saevel and Duelle, call that settling, making do, or other not as pleasant things. I call it being pragmatic. Final Fantasy XI presents you, the player, with a toolkit: The job system. It's up to the player to determine what tool(s) are best for any given job, and how they are best used. If, for some reason, the players insist on being able to whittle a deer with a power drill and circular saw because "that's just what power drills do" and they feel like it, there is only so much that can be done about it. Personally, I'd much rather whittle a deer with a pocket knife.

[DebbieGibson]

Contrary to popular talking points, I doubt anyone's ego is fearful of being bruised by a buff to Red Mage melee. If melee'ing on Red Mage was actually beneficial and more efficient than not melee'ing at some point in the game, I'm sure myself and others would have no problem doing so (and it is, on anything EP or below, in which case myself and others do melee). The discussion has never really been about which way should be better, but rather what is most prudent to do in the given situation.

Melee'ing on anything above EM on Red Mage doesn't work as is, straight up. The only real difference here is that some people wish for the game to change to suit what they feel is the only correct vision for Red Mage as a class, while others are willing to mold themselves and their playstyles to function best within the game as it is. Instead of jamming a square peg into a round hole and demanding that the hole be changed to a square shape, some people just go grab a round peg instead.

Some people, like Saevel and Duelle, call that settling, making do, or other not as pleasant things. I call it being pragmatic. Final Fantasy XI presents you, the player, with a toolkit. The job system. It's up to the player to determine what tool(s) are best for any given job, and how they are best used. If, for some reason, the players insist on being able to whittle a deer with a power drill and circular saw because "that's just what power drills do" and they feel like it, there is only so much that can be done about it. Personally, I'd much rather whittle a deer with a pocket knife.

Just wondering what is your IQ?

[Greatguardian]

Just wondering what is your IQ?

Serious question or trollface?

[DebbieGibson]

Serious question or trollface?

You make some of the best posts I have the pleasure of reading. Your two analogies in the above post are what prompted me to ask, as they give a very nice 'finishing blow' to what you're explaining. If you were a preacher I would probably go to your church.

[SpankWustler]

Some people, like Saevel and Duelle, call that settling, making do, or other not as pleasant things. I call it being pragmatic. Final Fantasy XI presents you, the player, with a toolkit: The job system. It's up to the player to determine what tool(s) are best for any given job, and how they are best used. If, for some reason, the players insist on being able to whittle a deer with a power drill and circular saw because "that's just what power drills do" and they feel like it, there is only so much that can be done about it. Personally, I'd much rather whittle a deer with a pocket knife.

The only thing wrong with this analogy is that whittling a deer using a power drill and a circular saw sounds like it would be amazing. Well, once I learned how to do it with the three remaining fingers on my one remaining hand.

Still, it would be worth it!

[Quetzacoatl]

Instead of jamming a square peg into a round hole and demanding that the hole be changed to a square shape, some people just go grab a round peg instead.

Or you can go bold by grabbing a jigsaw/router and shaving the square peg into a circle peg.

Just sayin'. 8D