[dev1024] Job Adjustments - MNK (Nothing?)

[AyinDygra]

I agree that every update does not need to be a boost to overall possible damage coming from Monk (depending on what other jobs get), parts of Monk do need some attention to remain or become useful, such as Footwork and Guard.

Improving these things would be a step in the right direction:
Footwork needs a niche where we'd choose to use it over normal hand to hand for good reasons, not to slow down our damage and control our hate production (maybe stronger attack against enemies with high defense with 2-hander type bonuses and/or the ability to randomly short-stun enemies.) and Guard is a unique and significant method of damage mitigation that actually helps us against enemies that use "job ability attacks" that cannot be countered, but it needs some help (higher activation rate, maybe part of Footwork is increasing guard rate, etc). These would be in addition to the areas that they're already focusing on in the above post.

Neither upgrade is expected to make Monk even "more powerful" than other jobs. They focus on the lesser-used or less useful aspects of the job. I guess the biggest argument against any such upgrades is that it's so-called "wasted time" that could be used on "more useful" updates (a point on which I disagree.)

(A suggestion that fits into the proposed changes to Monk: A job ability: Grapple. Using this ability may prevent the enemy from defending itself against other party member's attacks. (turning off Counterattack, Shield blocking, Evasion, Guard and Parry) The drawback: While grappling, the monk's auto-attack rounds may be consumed each time it prevents one of the above defense actions of the enemy.)

[Synria]

I agree that every update does not need to be a boost to overall possible damage coming from Monk (depending on what other jobs get), parts of Monk do need some attention to remain or become useful, such as Footwork and Guard.

Improving these things would be a step in the right direction:
Footwork needs a niche where we'd choose to use it over normal hand to hand for good reasons, not to slow down our damage and control our hate production (maybe stronger attack against enemies with high defense with 2-hander type bonuses and/or the ability to randomly short-stun enemies.) and Guard is a unique and significant method of damage mitigation that actually helps us against enemies that use "job ability attacks" that cannot be countered, but it needs some help (higher activation rate, maybe part of Footwork is increasing guard rate, etc). These would be in addition to the areas that they're already focusing on in the above post.

Neither upgrade is expected to make Monk even "more powerful" than other jobs. They focus on the lesser-used or less useful aspects of the job. I guess the biggest argument against any such upgrades is that it's so-called "wasted time" that could be used on "more useful" updates (a point on which I disagree.)

(A suggestion that fits into the proposed changes to Monk: A job ability: Grapple. Using this ability may prevent the enemy from defending itself against other party member's attacks. (turning off Counterattack, Shield blocking, Evasion, Guard and Parry) The drawback: While grappling, the monk's auto-attack rounds may be consumed each time it prevents one of the above defense actions of the enemy.)

In full agreement with what you're saying. Other, older traits and abilities need to be tweaked more than new things need to be added. Really like the idea of Grapple you have going there too.

[uptempo]

Just remove mnk from the game job done everyone happy.

[Motenten]

Nin's TP reduction spell is -10% compared to Penance's -25%. Nin can keep it up fulltime, though, and I believe it overwrites Penance (likely because it has a longer duration).

So --

Mnk: 20% innate. Gear includes: 10% on Tantra +2 head, 5% on Black Belt/Rajas/Agasaya/Usuakane, and a few other pieces here and there. Most likely sitting at 40% base, but can reach 50% if you want to. Using 40%.

Penance is a 25% Inhibit effect that can be maintained 55% of the time, for a theoretical ~14% TP reduction over time.

Nin: 25% innate, 5% merits, 10% spell for 40% base. Gear such as Rajas Ring, Agasaya's Collar or Usukane Gote can easily be added in to cap it. They can then put a permanent -10% TP Inhibit effect on the mob (subject to resistances).


Emp nin should be getting 4.3 TP per hit (base), while Emp mnk should be getting 4.8. TP given to the mob per hit: 3.2 for the nin, 3.4 or 4.6 depending on if Penance is up (~4.1 average) for mnk.

Avg delay per base punch for mnk: 163
Avg delay per base hit for nin: 98

TP given per second (before DA/kicks/etc):
mnk: 1.69 to 1.25 (1.45 avg)
nin: 1.96


The lower delay nin attacks at really hurts their TP given to the mob, even after factoring in their better Subtle Blow options.

Compare war w/Ukon: 13 base TP per hit, 5% SB (do they have any aside from Rajas?), so 15.2 TP given to the mob per hit and 1.89 TP given per second (less than nin, even).

And Footwork mnk: TP given to the mob is based on 6.4 (theoretical TP gained at 1/2 FW's 480 delay), so 4.2-5.6 TP given per kick, and 0.525 to 0.7 TP given per second.

So yes, I'd say that low TP given to the mob is still generally mnk's domain, though the above ignores all multi-attack traits that will mess up the final values.

[Ophannus]

Not complaining just noting that its odd that the Dev team wants to make Monk better at something that they already made someone else better at, with good reason.

Argument against giving any other job Cure5+?

[Alderin]

Off topic - but in regards to spike flail.

In abyssea, some NM's are better to butt-tank and eat a few spike flails to avoid other TP's. Azdaja & Isgebind to name a couple...

[Taint2]

Off topic - but in regards to spike flail.

In abyssea, some NM's are better to butt-tank and eat a few spike flails to avoid other TP's. Azdaja & Isgebind to name a couple...

Dragua doesn't even flail. But yeah Aza,Isge,Dragua,Alfard are all easy to "butt" tank.

[Gael]

Azdaja only, you have no reason to do it for Isgebind >_>

[brayen]

Azdaja only, you have no reason to do it for Isgebind >_>

WHy not? you want to get terror'ed and dispel all?

[Gael]

Because Isgebind sucks hard.

Horrid Roar : Takes 1 sec to cast a shell 5 on the tank, an other sec to cast a barspell and 2 sec to cast a haste. The hate reset is NEVER a problem (1 voke is enough to keep the NM on you, if you count 1-2 sec after the end of the move to do it)
Glacial Breath : loldmg
Gregale Wing : never proc (2 proc on me for 50ish fights), and the aura para is not really powerfull
Spike Flail is not dangerous alone, but it can makes you wipe if it does it right after an unresisted blizzard 5, ga 4
Absolute Terror : This one sucks a bit, but the duration is very short so not really a problem

We usually killed it in 5-7 min (we always had to wait the beginning of the windows for the repop of Kur).


(BTW we did it with whm + mnk, and i was the whm, so believe me when i say it's a lot easier to kill it w/o tank it from behide, and it doesnt really take longer)