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  1. #31
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stylin View Post
    No you can't, DoT wakes people up.
    That is why you go /BLM and open with Sleepga. Wipes shadows and sleeps them, if their using poison pots then follow it up with bind (or break). Then do the usual Silence -> Paralyze -> Slow and drain / aspir them to death. May take awhile, but is by far the cheapest sure fire way to win a PVP match.
    (0)

  2. #32
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    And as I've said multiple times now, you do not want Temper to be other-castable. AOE-able self target yes, but other cast-able no. Else you'll be be stuck doing it on 4~5 other melee's along with haste. Once that happens you will NEVER be allowed to melee in a group again, because the exact same BS that happened in the past will happen again, you'll be yelled at by the four to five other melee's "where's my temper b1tch, better keep that shizzle up, and make me a sammich while your back there". Also you don't want Cure V, especially with a single targetable other castable melee buff spell. The end result is a RDM cycling four to five tempers, four to five hastes and spamming Cure V on a bunch of melee's as they go hog wild. Pull out your sword and you'll be yelled at to get back to hasting and cureing, else one of the SE riding DRK's, or Hasso'ing WAR / DRG's, or the CS Berserked MNK happened to die from too many damage.

    Of course there are those amongst the RDM group that have zero intention of playing RDM and instead want these things so that they can enjoy them on DRK / MNK / DRG / BLU / ect. Gotta love how we're our own worst enemy.
    (2)

  3. #33
    Player Stylin's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    Character
    Stylin
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    That is why you go /BLM and open with Sleepga.
    That's my point, you are restricted by subjob as opposed to having Slowga and Paralyga handy, allowing you to destroy your opponent /war or /nin.
    (2)

  4. #34
    Player CapriciousOne's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Character
    Capriciousone
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 95
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    1. A PDT-% Set is a good thing to have when soloing single wield, smaller monsters aren't much of a trouble, but post 80s you're going to start running into a difference in our defensive spell scaling, that's where this set comes into play.

    Maybe but here post level 80 maybe it just me but i am finding the baseline defense of armor sets just plain lacking. Eventually I will get back to putting more effort into crafting to see if this synergy makes any real difference in improving that but somehow I doubt it will be to the point of complete satisfaction. The last set(head,hands,body,legs, and feet) that I seen with decent DEF was back in the 70s with the dusk jerking set for 174 total defense and a bonus 23 attack but the movement speed reduction is complete bs, lol. As these level 90+ mobs hit harder the baseline total defense of armor sets need to start hitting and surpassing the 200s already without needing to be in abyssea all the time with atmas and bs. Some of the level 80 armor sets are barely any better than the late 70 stuff (not counting stat mods here) and that is just sad well at least the ones that can be AH anyway.

    2. That said I'm more of the mind that this spell is more powerful than the trait itself, and with the possibility that it can be targeted or accessioned, it would greatly assist our other buff functions as well.

    In this sense I can see your point but in terms of stuff proc casting a spell that may only proc like 1 or 2 times in it duration for however mp it will cost still seem better off as a trait but if it is something that you can completely count on to work consistently then yes I totally agree a spell will be way more powerful for the reason you mention. Otherwise I dont see the point in making me use my mp for it. I am really stingy with my mp, lol.

    3. As far as wasting MP? Are you REALLY having trouble? Composure alone offsets this, more so if it prevents enspells (or even stacks with Enspell IIs which you can haste Samba on as well.) You shouldn't be having too much of a trouble MP wise. And if it stacks with traits, then you're better off adjusting your playstyle and enjoying the overall performance boost.

    As mentioned in resposnse to number 2 i'm just stingy with my mp I dont litterally ever run out mp solo because of it. I really meant this more figuratively than litterally as far as wasting mp. If a spell cost x mp but the effect is something that kicks in every once a blue moon and when it does kick in it doesnt really do anything significant then it is a wast of mp to me. I never liked that having to pick and choose either a samba or enspell crap either but since the mp for enspells and tp for sambas is reasonable i just cut one off to put on the other. The main thing for me is that where possible I like to have affects apply to both weapons so I generally stick to enspell I over II because of this fact. Overall despite the fact I never really use much if any mp while healing gear or other refresh gear or even staves mp is never really an issue for me just to clarify.

    4. Red Mage has 3 forms of hard CC[crowd control] and 2 form of soft CC. Sleep, Sleep II, and Break can easily hold down 2-3 mobs for your killing pleasure. But if you have difficulty, you can always bind pin the third and alternate gravity, though that gets expensive over time.

    I must admit I havent used break all too much since I have purchased it. The only time so far I have used it was in a few Campaign battles and I was rather unimpressed when compared to the mob version of the spell I was highly pissed off since it wears off upon damage to the mob or at least it seemed that way to me. I suppose it could be more effective against non campaign mobs I will try adding it to my sleep II/I macro and see but I am still skeptical of that spell. I have also done that with bind and gravity and yest it does get expensive over time and thus why I was looking for a more reasonably mp cost effective alternative. Silence and parlyzing mobs with an additional blind /blind 2 for secondary links seem to do pretty good over all just would be nice to have a single spell to accomplish it on so i can focus more on the direct rather than impending threats while waiting for sleep recasts and all. I really try to get all the mobs sleep II though since it gives me a full 90 seconds which is a huge difference maker in situation in like those. Guess I could always sub blm but I admit I am spoiled with dual wielding and hate reverting back to sword and boarding but sometimes it is necessary (sigh)

    5. What you might find helpful in the future, however, is this new JA that quickens spellcasting. (Though, no mention of recast timer reset... hmm.) Depending on how it functions it should assist in your pinning methods better without having to worry about getting new /ga spells.

    I have been quite satisfied with getting spells off in general fast cast still has proven useful even with casting tier III elementals. Spell casting in general is more about timing the spell casting with the mobs attack round. In addition with the help of aquaveil, stoneskin, phalanx II, blind II and paralyze II at my disposal getting spells off is more of a non issue to me. though the recast leaves much to be desired.

    Another higher tier of fast cast may resolve or put a dent in this as well at least for tier III and higher spells. I still havent gotten any tier iv spells because of the mp cost and casting time I imagine those have plus i refuse to pay more than 100k for a spell on ah, LOL. So far me being cheap and not buying tier IV spells hasnt bit me in butt as of yet as far soloing outside abyssea.

    Only time spell casting starts to become a real issue for me is in the case of 3 or more mobs on me. It makes it extremely difficult to get of spells even on the current mob as they are hitting you at different intervals. When a mob becomes awake when sleep wears off is where paralyzega and silencega would come into play allowing me to buy maybe a second or two to get off the next round of sleep II/Sleep I/ and now break while still dealing with the current thread. I can barely get a cure off which is why i prefer to go /dnc over blm bc of guarantee cure in waltzes when the normal spells fail. Cure IV + Curing Waltz III is almost as good as a single Cure V if i remember correctly but i'm sure I dont. In any case this is why I think /ga spells for silence and paralyze would be useful. Getting nuked by 2 True sight imps with Fire IV or even V while trying to kill some other mob sucks but it would at least give you a chance. Whether you are able to make good on that oportunity is up to your skills. Would be nice if there was a pet command I could use to make my Adventuring fellow go attack one of the other mobs instead of the one I'm focused on that would help as well. Ga spells will just have to do because I dont see that ever happening.

    6. Just keeping a good focus on the battles keeps this going as well, however. When the attention is on us, we don't need the Ga paralyze because we have ice spikes. And in any situation that involves Crowd Control, we're typically focusing on one monster at a time. So unless the monster dies quickly, our single target debuffs are fine.

    Yea the mobs of late I face dont die quickly solo maybe after the next level cap. While you are correct here I think the issue to me is that Ice spikes is more governed by your enhancing skill which is generally lower than your enfeebling skill but I have to look more into that because I"m not positively sure. If I am correct that is why I would prefer a ga spell over it since it more likely to stick and stay on them longer


    7.As far as sleep resistant mobs, unless they're outright immune to break, that's how you get past Paladins. (Break, Gravity, Bind, repeat.) In any situation in which you'd need that much CC and a stun to boot, just sub black mage.
    In general though I'm usually good about not getting any additoinal and unneccessary aggro from mobs. It just in general think it would make RDM even more useful in low man situations. It is more about the fact that other mage jobs have ga spells for there best magic combat skills yet rdm doesnt. I mean how does the master of enfeebles not have ga enfeebles? Just something I thought would be another way to distinguish the job from other mobs and give another way to contribute to the party.
    (1)

  5. #35
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stylin View Post
    That's my point, you are restricted by subjob as opposed to having Slowga and Paralyga handy, allowing you to destroy your opponent /war or /nin.
    Why would you be trying to melee them? That's just asking to die. THF's are insanely hard to hit, MNK's can CS and use Emp WS to nearly one shot you, BLU's will stun lock you the moment your within casting range, PLD's will just laugh at you as your won't scratch their paint. PVP is the one place you want to be pure page, stay as far away from the enemy as possible and wear them down over time. If you stay away your basically invulnerable, if you get close you provide them with a chance to use their abilities and seriously hurt you.

    Your using sleepga not to just strip shadows, but because it'll buy 2~3 seconds (if they have poison pots) for you to silence / bind / paralyze them. Once you've got those on most jobs won't be able to go on the offensive, ever, you can control the entire fight. Sleep I / Sleep II / Sleepga / Bind / Gravity / Break all work to control the movement of your enemy and keep distance. Paralyze / Silence / Slow server to steal their JA's and prevent them from casting. If they try to use items that will give you even more time to do things, and para can proc on items too. You kill them by siphoning away their HP and MP and leaving them without the ability to actually do anything.

    Learned these things while fighting BLU's, who think their godly at PVP just cause they can stunlock anything close and tear it them to ribbons.
    (0)

  6. #36
    Player Stylin's Avatar
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    Character
    Stylin
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Now you're just splitting hairs, which is beside the point.
    (0)

  7. #37
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stylin View Post
    Now you're just splitting hairs, which is beside the point.
    Its very relevant. Paralyga / Slowga wouldn't accomplish what Sleepga accomplishes. Your not just trying to strip shadows, your trying to buy yourself a few seconds to CC / lock them down. You must assume their going to be using poison pots and have a supply of echo's, so Sleep / Silence are short term solutions. But if you can control the situation and force them to use them when you want them to use them you can keep distance between them and work their HP / MP down. Which goes to another point, neither /WAR nor /NIN have access to Drain / Aspir which are critical to depleting their MP. Don't believe me then go PVP a BLU. Their tactics look about like this

    Disseverment
    Heat Butt
    CA Efflux Q.Cont
    T.Shift
    G.Rush
    Head butt (if its up otherwise Fry Pan)
    Disseverment
    Fry Pan (if you used head butt earlier, otherwise use headbutt)
    H.Barrage / other spell
    Your dead

    They can do 2K+ damage so fast and keep you stunned and with a 18hp/tick poison effect on. Shadows mean nothing to them, all their spells will rip them off. Biggest weakness is that all their super spells and stun's are short range, usually slightly bigger then melee range. They also have a ranged bind, but it takes time to cast so you have a chance to run away.

    So yeah go /WAR or /NIN and fight a BLU, watch the results.
    (0)

  8. #38
    Player Stylin's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    Character
    Stylin
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Yeah nah, you're still missing the point. It's theory craft on why Square hasn't given RDM any native AoE aside from Diaga, not practical application and viable strategy. Thank you for the insight, though.
    (0)

  9. #39
    Player Bluplanet's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    Leviathan
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    18
    Character
    Bluplanet
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Okay, I read all four pages of this thread and I did not see anyone specifically address my question... so I'll ask it now.

    Regarding the Proposed Job Adjustments for BLM and RDM. I'm curious about the how the descriptions are worded.

    • Black Mage Manawell (Lv. 95) Eliminates the cost of the next magic spell the target casts.
    • Red Mage Spontaneity (Lv. 95) Reduces casting time for the next magic spell the target casts.

    Specifically, "... the next magic spell the "target" casts."

    Is it SquEnix's intent that these spells are for a BLM or RDM to cast the spell on another player/enemy?
    Is it accurate to state that these spells ARE NOT intended for a BLM or RDM to cast the spell on "self"?
    (0)
    Bluplanet @ Leviathan


    Image by: Syllvian (FFXI retired)

  10. #40
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Blu,

    I think that's just a poorly worded statement. To my knowledge there isn't a single JA in the game that acts that way, the closest ones are Devotion / Martyr, Accomplice / Collaborator and Sekkanoki. Those all perform a specific effect on the target, the ones above would create a buff icon until you used them up like ES / DA / CA / BA / Efflux / SA / TA and all the other JA buffs in the game.
    (0)

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