[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[Stylin]

That is why you go /BLM and open with Sleepga.

That's my point, you are restricted by subjob as opposed to having Slowga and Paralyga handy, allowing you to destroy your opponent /war or /nin.

[saevel]

That's my point, you are restricted by subjob as opposed to having Slowga and Paralyga handy, allowing you to destroy your opponent /war or /nin.

Why would you be trying to melee them? That's just asking to die. THF's are insanely hard to hit, MNK's can CS and use Emp WS to nearly one shot you, BLU's will stun lock you the moment your within casting range, PLD's will just laugh at you as your won't scratch their paint. PVP is the one place you want to be pure page, stay as far away from the enemy as possible and wear them down over time. If you stay away your basically invulnerable, if you get close you provide them with a chance to use their abilities and seriously hurt you.

Your using sleepga not to just strip shadows, but because it'll buy 2~3 seconds (if they have poison pots) for you to silence / bind / paralyze them. Once you've got those on most jobs won't be able to go on the offensive, ever, you can control the entire fight. Sleep I / Sleep II / Sleepga / Bind / Gravity / Break all work to control the movement of your enemy and keep distance. Paralyze / Silence / Slow server to steal their JA's and prevent them from casting. If they try to use items that will give you even more time to do things, and para can proc on items too. You kill them by siphoning away their HP and MP and leaving them without the ability to actually do anything.

Learned these things while fighting BLU's, who think their godly at PVP just cause they can stunlock anything close and tear it them to ribbons.

[Stylin]

Now you're just splitting hairs, which is beside the point.

[saevel]

Now you're just splitting hairs, which is beside the point.

Its very relevant. Paralyga / Slowga wouldn't accomplish what Sleepga accomplishes. Your not just trying to strip shadows, your trying to buy yourself a few seconds to CC / lock them down. You must assume their going to be using poison pots and have a supply of echo's, so Sleep / Silence are short term solutions. But if you can control the situation and force them to use them when you want them to use them you can keep distance between them and work their HP / MP down. Which goes to another point, neither /WAR nor /NIN have access to Drain / Aspir which are critical to depleting their MP. Don't believe me then go PVP a BLU. Their tactics look about like this

Disseverment
Heat Butt
CA Efflux Q.Cont
T.Shift
G.Rush
Head butt (if its up otherwise Fry Pan)
Disseverment
Fry Pan (if you used head butt earlier, otherwise use headbutt)
H.Barrage / other spell
Your dead

They can do 2K+ damage so fast and keep you stunned and with a 18hp/tick poison effect on. Shadows mean nothing to them, all their spells will rip them off. Biggest weakness is that all their super spells and stun's are short range, usually slightly bigger then melee range. They also have a ranged bind, but it takes time to cast so you have a chance to run away.

So yeah go /WAR or /NIN and fight a BLU, watch the results.

[Stylin]

Yeah nah, you're still missing the point. It's theory craft on why Square hasn't given RDM any native AoE aside from Diaga, not practical application and viable strategy. Thank you for the insight, though.

[Bluplanet]

Okay, I read all four pages of this thread and I did not see anyone specifically address my question... so I'll ask it now.

Regarding the Proposed Job Adjustments for BLM and RDM. I'm curious about the how the descriptions are worded.

• Black Mage Manawell (Lv. 95) Eliminates the cost of the next magic spell the target casts.
• Red Mage Spontaneity (Lv. 95) Reduces casting time for the next magic spell the target casts.

Specifically, "... the next magic spell the "target" casts."

Is it SquEnix's intent that these spells are for a BLM or RDM to cast the spell on another player/enemy?
Is it accurate to state that these spells ARE NOT intended for a BLM or RDM to cast the spell on "self"?

[CapriciousOne]

Why would you be trying to melee them? That's just asking to die. THF's are insanely hard to hit, MNK's can CS and use Emp WS to nearly one shot you, BLU's will stun lock you the moment your within casting range, PLD's will just laugh at you as your won't scratch their paint. PVP is the one place you want to be pure page, stay as far away from the enemy as possible and wear them down over time. If you stay away your basically invulnerable, if you get close you provide them with a chance to use their abilities and seriously hurt you.

Well me I melee because the mp cost of elementals is awful even with the damage they deal as well as the long casting/recasting times between them. This combination in it self is why I PREFER to melee RDM more than use magic. Meleeing also allows my Refresh 2 to restore more mp while I wait on recasts for my highest tier spells. I usually RDM/DNC because of sambas which also assist my regen 2/ refresh 2 spells for keeping up hp/mp as well as the steps that lower defense and evasion further than Dia and Gravity can accomplish. Gravity, slow, quick step, and blind2 helps with thieves, paladins arent really all that much of an issue when you have higher tier protect and shell combined with fully merited phalanx 2 and keep them bio ii to reduce thier attack power to lower damage taken. I cant say much about going against a Blu mage as I havent faced many BLU Nm or anything else for that matter but silence, paralyze, and keeping up barthunder I imagine would help reduce to effectiveness of any stun type moves and so would having your own shock spikes up to help stun them.

In any case paralyga, slowga, and any other -ga spell for rdm I was only referring to in terms of soloing and dealing with links a little more effectively. Slowga, paralyga, silencga, sleepga, when used in combination all reduce the overall attack rounds a mob would have to attack you giving you extra "free shots" if you will to damage the mob further than you otherwise would without them. These ga spells would also prove useful in battlefields with multiple mobs that need to be defeated in a time limit. I just always believe in having more than one of anything (healer/nuker/enfeebler etc.) RDM is unique as that it can serve as a stand in to any of those roles with little gear change needed to do so though they are still helpful to have.