[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[Neisan_Quetz]

I think they're talking about the original utsu nerf when it only took one shadow no matter the attack (including meteor from KB).

[Kitkat]

Back during the initial release of Ninja and Utsusemi, shadows would absorb AOE and multi-hit attacks and would only count it as 1 shadow. Goblin rush, 3 strike attack, 1 shadow. It was during CoP that this was changed and multi-hit attacks would take more than one shadow as well as AOE would either remove or take 1-3 shadows based on Parry skill checks. Additionally, some attacks would now ignore utsusemi and deal direct damage without removing or even checking shadows. SE saw this as unbalanced and corrected it since it made Pld tank obsolete, turned nin into a far superior tank, and rdm/nin was capable of soloing ground HNM such as serket with relative ease due the the ability to negate extreme aoe attacks. This was roughly back in 04 or 05.

[Mageoholic]

my level 61 WHM heals better then my 90 RDM. That ain't right.

[Kitkat]

That is mainly cause Rdm is a backup/filler healer not primary. The whm native spell list grants them all the required spells to status cure and restore HP to a player and themselves. Rdm does not get more than Tier II regen and Tier IV cure natively and must sub whm to gain status cures and curaga spells. Rdm was not ment for this as quoted in their original form (this is from the users manual published in 2003):

White mage: Experts in whit magic that specialize in healing and recovery spells. Weak in close combat, and prohibited from using blade weapons.

Red Mages: Capable of using both white and black magic; adept at swordsmanship. However, red mages take far longer to master powerful spells than white or black mages due to their broad range of abilities.

I would certainly say far longer as it took nearly 20 levels to be able to use Tier IV from black mage, 32 before we got Regen II, and almost 40 to learn Riase II. Gotta say though, not seeing the adept at swordmanship part too well. We do get a B rating, same as war, but lack access to certain weaponskills (some of which don't make much of any sense). Out of 95 levels worth of equipment we only have about a handful that really enhances any aspects of rdm's unique melee capabilities (C. Fluerete, E. Sword, Hollow earring with extra dmg/effects under Enspell effect).

In contrast Rdm has gained a very expansive gear choice for mage specific play, but very little in gear choice for melee to give it a unique place within a back-up role. SE has maintained a very strict enforcement on the scaling of enspell/phalanx/Aquaviel/Gain-spells also making it difficult to be better in this area of capabilities of a rdm. Granted more gear has just been added, but will require a good deal of hoop jumping and luck/acceptance for a rdm to aquire this piece over someone else that can wear it also. I wouldn't mind seeing more gear that enhances rdm ability to melee when under the effect of certain spells, but I'm not expecting a totally reworked change. Just a way to balance out the initial vision of rdm; to give it the choice to do more than just stand there all the time.

[cidbahamut]

The 2003 user's manual doesn't count for much. You should feel bad for trying to use it to support your argument.

[Kitkat]

Not supporting the argument so much as showing that rdm was never ment to be a primary role. It only goes to show that either mage or melee preference the job will never fit a primary role because it was not meant to. It was built to be a hybrid job; unable to be a primary mage or primary melee, but capable of filling the role in a back-up sense. Therefor it doesn't hurt what I've already said and only shows why I support some enhancement to melee, but not a complete reform to the ability to melee.

If you want I can even quote POL's definition of Rdm: These fighter-mages can utilize both black and white magic, as well as the arts of the sword.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It shouldn't take Rdm over 48 levels to get a new healing spell.

[Mageoholic]

I don't give a crap if WHM is supposed to be a healer or not. I should not be able to outheal my 90RDM with my 61 WHM. Ever. At all.

I could go without seeing C5 on RDM, but at least make healing magic actually apply to healing spells. It is stupid that my 61WHM can heal for 200-300 more HP then my 90RDM.

And how you can argue otherwise is beyond me.

[Kitkat]

If your Whm at 61 is curing 200-300 more using the same cure spells it isn't the fault of the magic it is the fault of the user not having cure potency gear. The only way a Whm surpasses a 90 rdm at 61 is via Cure V which you negated as a point stating you can do without it. Even at both being 90 the difference isn't that great between the same tier Cures since healing skill hardly increases amount cured. The greatest difference comes in the terms of Cure potency and the fact that Whm actually has Merits, gear, and passive traits to make cure cast faster and more mp efficiently.

So without counting Cure V or VI, since you yourself negated them already, the overall difference is (I may be forgetting some gear here) is now 2% potency difference assuming 50% potency cap, and roughly 6hp difference worth of skill and possible ~30-40hp via +mnd/vit? I'm sorry I'm failing to see your point here after you negated Cure V as a viable remedy. Additional negation of higher tier Cure spells in exchange for a passive or JA that increases the potency beyond that cap causes further issues than it remedies due to still being stuck with Cure IV and lower due to increasing Enmity generation when curing. This would require a greater -enmity build to counteract the generation which may cause cure pot% gear to be removed to compensate thus nullifying the JA or Passive trait being added in the first place unless SE decides to give us another tier of Tranquil Heart.

Also, not trying to be difficult just looking at "what if" scenarios. You want a remedy to something then think up a plausible solution, complaining about it doesn't really move the situation to a resolution if you aren't offering anything to fix the problem.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Can cap cure potency and have -50 enmity in gear (lose out on mind/healing skill obv) and Rdm has 3 tiers of Tranquil Heart @ 90.