[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[Gokku]

but isnt this spell exactly what the rdm community melee party wanted a buff in any fashion even if it does nothing to help rdm as class at all?! its funny i warned people SE has been known to do this give jobs the "buff" they wanted but make sure its not how they wanted it i.e Black belt quests SE made sure 3 kings can be poped and black belt was "easyer" to obtain 2-6mil and a few days changed to 1200-3000 KS and some luck.

[Duelle]

but isnt this spell exactly what the rdm community melee party wanted a buff in any fashion even if it does nothing to help rdm as class at all?

This is baby step #2 towards what the melee camp wants. We'll see if the remaining steps (streamlining of magic melee, increased weapon proficiency, increased access to WS, more gear having RDM in the list of jobs capable of wearing it, playing with numbers until the desired DPS comes out the other side relative to other jobs) are in the pipes for our job.

If you wanted to get insta-invites through buff-botting...idk sux 2 b u? No one has still answered why any of us would ever want another spell to cycle, by the way. Cycling spells suck. "Buff-share/copy" mechanics might be in the works, for all we know. That would actually go in place with the manifesto without pissing off the melee camp.

PS: You're acting like this is the end of the world. I'm sure the devs are working on further adjustments instead of scratching themselves or playing the WoW collectible card game.

[cidbahamut]

No one has still answered why any of us would ever want another spell to cycle, by the way. Cycling spells suck. "Buff-share/copy" mechanics might be in the works, for all we know. That would actually go in place with the manifesto without pissing off the melee camp.

Because I'd prefer to have a spell that can be useful in lots of content rather than get one that I'll only use when I try to farm Dark Rings.

Your complaints shouldn't be "DON'T GIVE US BUFF SPELLS", so much as it should be "Make buffs natively AoE and give them lengthy durations", that way everyone wins. Unless of course you really just didn't want to contribute anything to your party, in which case I don't know why you'd care if it was self-cast or not because you're clearly aiming to do everything solo.

[Duelle]

Your complaints shouldn't be "DON'T GIVE US BUFF SPELLS", so much as it should be "Make buffs natively AoE and give them lengthy durations", that way everyone wins.

Notice my complaints are entirely fueled by the knowledge that RDM's theme is less skill at magic than WHM and BLM in exchange for skill with the sword. This means that AoE spells are instantly out of the question if it can be avoided (notice how past Diaga we have no AoE native to our job). That's why I'd be in favor of a buff copy/share mechanic if it comes down to it. Also, if you actually paid attention to what I've said in the past, I've mentioned buffing should be trivial to cast and maintain. No significant part of my combat time should be consumed by buffing when I'm in the front lines...hence my constant mention of "cycles have no place in front line play". I've argued for removing buffing altogether when front-lining during earlier iterations of the debate because, frankly, I know SE will never make Refresh and Haste instant cast or natively AoE-able. They chose the wrong job to try to attach the buffbot label, and in situations like that it easily shows.

I even concurred with the mention of Greater Blessings from WoW earlier in this very thread as an example, because I don't mind buffing at all...provided my entire gameplay is NOT centered on just casting buff spells or involves any cycles. On my pally all I had to do was set pally power to whatever buff I was assigned to keep on the raid by the raid leader and away I went; 30-minute duration buffs that were instant cast, thus not interrupting on the amount of time I spent hitting things with a light-imbued hammer and focusing on DPS. And a second Refresh (Replenishment) that stacks with my class' version of Refresh (Greater Blessing of Wisdom) that affects the raid only if I use one of my signature attacks (Judgement) on a mob. That is how a sword & magic hybrid with buffs is supposed to play. Not like a "cycle mage" that stands in the back line "supporting" the healer and mezzing, neglecting an entire third of the job's concept, build, and archetype.

[Greatguardian]

This thread is hilarious.

RdMelee got a buff. A decent buff. OAT on Almace? Nice.

Broheims got a problem with Melee-only buffs? Maybe make your presence known here outside the 1% of forum time devoted to complaining about updates. Red Mage got Temper because, aside from maybe 5 Magical Red Mages who post here, all of the posting on this subforum is Melee-oriented.

You have people like Duelle quite literally calling for massive casting nerfs to Red Mage. Removal of spells, reduction in casting ranges, even Addenda-esque stances which have been the bane of Scholar since its inception.

If you give a crap about the direction of your job, maybe you should show up and make your feelings known more often. When all the Devs are seeing is a huge melee camp sitting around asking for sword updates, with a mouthpiece or two even demanding nerfs to casting and only the same 4-5 posters refuting that nonsense, we're going to end up with things like Temper.

With that said, the update doesn't really bother me. Everyone knew the day Addle was released that White Mage was also on the spell (.DAT mining, etc). A quick-magic JA is pretty darn awesome, and will definitely see use. Overall we didn't really gain much (outside the melee faction), but we didn't lose anything either. Red Mage is not exactly in an overly poor position to begin with, outside of Abyssea. With any luck, 95-tier Endgame content will become relevant enough for people to really start to move out of the Abyssean midgame.

[Shiyo]

Yeah so they made it harder to get LOL

[Quetzacoatl]

She's actually right (for once). You don't underestimate people in stupid numbers. Because all things considered, if they bring enough attention to a needless matter, it may actually be considered by the higher-ups.

This is why these forums are a threat to the game and the way it gets adjusted in the eyes of the players who know what they're talking about.

[Gokku]

umm its not harder to get people , any 50+ mob drops a KS so now you have tons of mobs to farm for KS and the ks 100% drops the item to spawn the NQ land god and with TH you get a small chance at hq who has a chance at dropping the black belt item.

so now instead of having 1 way KSNM to get a black belt you have 2 KSNM and the 100% chance to kill HQ. they gave you more options cant you all see that!?! *im just kidding i laughed my ass off when i saw what they did to black belt*

lets be honest red mage melee wasnt broken, it wasnt first class and it was proven not to be sub par with good gear but the red mages still wanted a "fix" who knows it could be a 50% double attack that stacks on top of double attack gear / weps so you hit 3 times with joytoy but even then... since its a red only buff your not going to be wanted in any sort of DD situation , if it had stacked with /sch and was party buff DD's would have been frothing at the mouth to get a red in party for insane amounts of double attack.

[Crimson_Slasher]

See thats a case of agreeing to disagree, where as you dislike the change, i like the change, simple as that, the issue is the support rdm faction (especially here) did this to themselves too in some ways. While thinking we didnt need to melee you agreed on many of our points.

We mostly agreed on the facts that:
-Rdm melee was weak and insufficient compared to most jobs
-Rdm lacked sufficient melee buffs/traits/spells
-Rdm lacked a selection of good melee gear

But did that support your cause, or inadvertently ours? Doesnt help when the mage-heavy faction also claimed they were never "not busy" casting cures, nukes, enfeebles, buffs, and swapping gear. They decided this would make us all happy, making our melee enthusiasts happier and stronger, and conversely not making more work for the magic-focused players. In all, you're going overboard on us missing a few spells (cure V/temper/gain-str for sake of argument.)

Meanwhile, they could have easily treated us like war and mnk, just gave us thunder IV, Raise II, and been done with it, but if they did that, then we would have complained anyway. But know what i think is funny? This is almost exactly what i wanted from the next cap, and all its doing is making the same people who complained about and said we wouldnt get any melee updates, to rage out, and start slinging insults. Thats exactly what they are is insults, claiming "People in stupid numbers" caused this, and that only the dumb masses were appeased while the ones who "know what theyre talking about" were punished.

Let me pose a question, how can you attack us as a "minority" and then us being in "stupid numbers" at the same time? Possibly popular opinion has shifted? Either way, melee got a buff, and mageyness got a buff, if you wanna get more buffs/enfeebles, petition them, or...yeah ill take a page from the "Go play a melee job" mindset and say this, go play brd/cor for your buffs/debuffs!

[Shiyo]

See thats a case of agreeing to disagree, where as you dislike the change, i like the change, simple as that, the issue is the support rdm faction (especially here) did this to themselves too in some ways. While thinking we didnt need to melee you agreed on many of our points.

We mostly agreed on the facts that:
-Rdm melee was weak and insufficient compared to most jobs
-Rdm lacked sufficient melee buffs/traits/spells
-Rdm lacked a selection of good melee gear

But did that support your cause, or inadvertently ours? Doesnt help when the mage-heavy faction also claimed they were never "not busy" casting cures, nukes, enfeebles, buffs, and swapping gear. They decided this would make us all happy, making our melee enthusiasts happier and stronger, and conversely not making more work for the magic-focused players. In all, you're going overboard on us missing a few spells (cure V/temper/gain-str for sake of argument.)

Meanwhile, they could have easily treated us like war and mnk, just gave us thunder IV, Raise II, and been done with it, but if they did that, then we would have complained anyway. But know what i think is funny? This is almost exactly what i wanted from the next cap, and all its doing is making the same people who complained about and said we wouldnt get any melee updates, to rage out, and start slinging insults. Thats exactly what they are is insults, claiming "People in stupid numbers" caused this, and that only the dumb masses were appeased while the ones who "know what theyre talking about" were punished.

Let me pose a question, how can you attack us as a "minority" and then us being in "stupid numbers" at the same time? Possibly popular opinion has shifted? Either way, melee got a buff, and mageyness got a buff, if you wanna get more buffs/enfeebles, petition them, or...yeah ill take a page from the "Go play a melee job" mindset and say this, go play brd/cor for your buffs/debuffs!

You're bad at this game and will never do 10% of the damage of a real DD, sorry.